Keith Browning Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 So Ford finally released the PDS kit for use with the new VCM. If you don't know what it is, this is a diagnostic scan tool that utilizes a Windows Pocket-PC with the Vehicle Communication Module (VCM). From what I am reading it works really well which is good because it's being said to be the eventual replacemet to WDS. My only question is does Ford expect this to be the type of tool that every technician should have? My point is that after pricing it all out I find it to be out of the price range that most techs can afford and are they willing to spend the dough. PDS/VCM KIT from Rotunda: $2200.00 Pocket-PC either HP or Dell: $400 to $500 with accessories. That's not cheap. I am probably going to think long and hard about this before I make a final decision. Does anyone have one or has your dealer gotten one yet? Impressions? Comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 me and another tech just ordered the discounted HP 4705 pocket pc. the shop has one VCM and we are beating the boss up to get a second one while telling him more will be needed. we just about have him convinced that if they buy the VCM's ,most of the techs are willing to get their own pocket pc's. i also have my name in to get on the beta team for IDS, which will be the replacement for WDS. IDS will use a combination of the VCM and the still in development VMM while attching to a desktop/laptop computer. the VMM will be a small module that connects to a pc by usb and have all the connectors that are along the top of the WDS. i would buy my own VCM if Ford priced it more reasonable. say $1000-1200 but at its current price ill just settle for my own pocket pc to hook up to the shop VCM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 That's cool. Yeah, if only the price for the VCM was lower...amazing how Ford can get us a discount for Dell and HP but they can't drop the price on the Rotunda VCM? I read about the IDS when I was looking up all this up for pricing. So how does one get on a list for Beta testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 i put up a semi bitch post on the ford boards when PDS software was released complaining about why didnt they release it to connect to computers at the same time. well 10 min after i posted it the lead guy in the PDS program called me at work. we had about a 15 min talk and during that talk i asked about future beta testing and he asked me to send him some info, like who i was and where i worked. last i heard in December they are still trying to get the VMM designed and working like they want it before beta testing for IDS gets started. when i hear something ill let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 Cool. Whilst I was on the PTS Message Boards I looked around for posts on the subject of which there were a few. I find it interesting that I have not read a single negative comment on any of it yet. Is this a good sign of things to come? Considering the cost, it seems unfortunate that it might come down to every diagnostic technician having no choice but to have their own. Personally, I prefer it that way. Oh, yeah, I made my own comment about the cost of it all and not being able to decide having just spent a wad of cash on a new laptop for work. I ended my post with a prayer for the "PDS Fairy" to visit my shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think it is interesting how drive techs are such "tool whores" that they have little resistance to forking out the bucks for a new toy. How is it that a multi-million dollar franchise can't afford a $2200 tool, but a person on technician wages can rationalize the purchase as a good value? That thinking seems to elude me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 well what kills me about the price of $2200 is the VCM is only a part of the whole tool. the VCM wont work without a NGS or PocketPC as of now. the NGS still sells for $1700 brand new and its an outdated tool or you have to buy a PocketPC for $300-600. how many VCM's does Ford really expect to sell for $2200? what would make more money for Ford, selling a 1000 VCM's for $2200 or reducing the price to say $1200 where a tech may be able to afford it better and selling 5000 VCM's at that price. another perfect example of Ford not making good business decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 well i expect to hear soon on the testing of IDS. ive heard beta testing should be starting soon and i hope to be a part of it. another rumor i heard is the VCM price is about as good as it gets dont expect a price drop at all or anytime in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drford Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 well guys how do those of you using this like it we in canada still can not get it they say they are still having "minor" software issues just looking for some thought on it any info appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 I don't think anyone here as of yet has one that I have seen. For the money, it might not be until WDS really starts to fall away. I hear that support for WDS is gone next year so this new stuff is the future. I am surprised to hear that you cant get this stuff in Canada. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 well PDS is great. i dont use a NGS anymore and very rarely use the WDS. PDS is basicly a handheld WDS but way faster. PDS will just about everything WDS does that you dont need extra cables. now on to the WDS replacement, IDS. i have had the beta for a couple of weeks now. there will be no re-learning how to use a new tool because Ford is using the WDS software as a starting point. basicly it looks like WDS except its very fast. IDS uses the same VCM as PDS so you can change back and forth between PDS and IDS by only changing cables. the things i like most about IDS so far, more speed, being able to have a scan tool and service info on one machine. what ive been doing as of now is using IDS in the shop and when i need to road test i switch to PDS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 FordTechCA, Do you have any suggestions on how someone might get involved with BETA testing any of these new devices? How did you get involved and do ya "know somebody" on the inside? Can we get you to ask around? It's going to be a really hard sell to get my dealer to step up and start buying this stuff while the old stuff is still around. The real problem I see is that the "systems" require PDA's and computers which is the kind of thing a tech will probably need to get for himself. The sound of a "shop PDA" just sounds too unlikely. I bought a laptop and I wouldn't mind buying a PDA if my dealer would step up and hook me up with my own VCM. Sometimes you have to show them just how valuable something really is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 well no real suggestion on how to get involved. as i posted earlier in this thread it was a well timed post on the Ford boards that got me noticed by one of the people in charge of the program. we were also asked up front before the beta got started to not let it out on the Ford boards that we had been chosen to do the testing because the cost of everything was way more then the PDS beta Ford only had room for a limited number of testers. i think last count i had was there is only 15 techs using IDS right now across the country. reason you saw the IDS is out post on the Ford boards was we had gotten the OK to talk about it in the forums. i wasnt part of the PDS beta but had been in contact over the internet and in person with someone at another dealer that was part of the PDS beta. that may have helped too. from what i see right now as what may happen with PDS and IDS in the shop is probably the techs spending a bit of money. IDS is WDS replacement. once it is released WDS will no longer be updated, kinda like what happened to SBDS when WDS was released. so i expect dealers to buy the same amount of IDS kits to replace their WDS. the dealers can make their IDS as fast or slow as they want depending on how much money they spend for the laptop to run IDS. i kinda expect the cost of IDS to be less then WDS from what i see so far but with the way Ford does things its way too early to tell. i kinda think PDS cost will fall on the tech. get your dealer to buy 1 VCM for every NGS you currently have and the tech may end up buying their own pocket pc. i cant see a shop pocket pc. we all know how the NGS gets abused and a pocket pc cant take that kind of beating. the nice thing about PDS and IDS is they use the same VCM. no reprogramming the VCM when you switch between the 2. switching between the 2 is pretty painless. if your using IDS and need to road test, disconnect the cable from the VCM to the laptop, plug in the cable that PDS uses( PDS and IDS uses different cables to connect the VCM to the laptop or pocketpc), fire up the pocket pc and do your road test. anyways anymore questions about IDS feel free to ask and ill try to answer them the best i can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Quote: anymore questions about IDS feel free to ask and ill try to answer them the best i can Since you seem to know both, if I were to choose one or the other, which would you recommend? I already have a new laptop which you need to have anyway but is the IDS any better than PDS? I mostly pull codes, run self tests, A LOT OF PID MONITORING and module reprogramming and configuration. You can probably tell from several of my posts about this that I really don't want to spend $2700.00 until I have to and I want to make the right choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Quote: anymore questions about IDS feel free to ask and ill try to answer them the best i can Since you seem to know both, if I were to choose one or the other, which would you recommend? I already have a new laptop which you need to have anyway but is the IDS any better than PDS? I mostly pull codes, run self tests, A LOT OF PID MONITORING and module reprogramming and configuration. You can probably tell from several of my posts about this that I really don't want to spend $2700.00 until I have to and I want to make the right choice! well IDS is exactly like WDS in the way it works. basicly IDS is WDS on a laptop right now. i originally bought a laptop a year and a half ago in getting ready for IDS. then when PDS was released and i still couldnt use my laptop i have since bought the pocketpc for PDS. they both have their + and - when using them. in comparison PDS is like using NGS, its portable and fast when you need to pull codes quick. it will also do almost everything WDS does that you dont need extra cables for. reprograms,pids,pats,power balances, evap test, active commands and also get into the rest of the modules. downside to PDS, when you look at pids you can select as many as you want but can only view 3 at a time due to screen size and have to scroll up and down to see the rest that you selected. IDS is WDS on speed. IDS navigates just like WDS so everything that WDS does can be done with IDS. downside, it sucks on road test trying to controll a laptop, drive and watch pids. unless you spend extra money on a laptop with touch screen or get a tablet pc you will need to use the mouse to navigate. thats about the only thing i miss right now, no touch screen as for which one i would buy? well i have a laptop and pocket pc and used the shops VCM for PDS til i got the IDS beta package. once i got PDS working when i first got my pocket pc i hardly used the WDS unless i needed to do a injector flow test. i was using PDS for everything. now im playing around with both PDS and IDS. if your shop has a VCM i would go with PDS until we see what kind of package Ford releases when IDS comes out at the end of the year or beginning of next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 28, 2005 Author Share Posted August 28, 2005 Did anybody catch this? VCM ADVANCED PDS KIT - INCUDING POCKET-PC (WEB BASED UPDATES) SNA078-00640 [*]VCM – PDS Advanced Kit includes: Vehicle Communications Module (VCM), VCM software, users manual, PDS Storage bag, and all appropriate cables and adapters. [*]Also included: Hewlett-Packard hx4700 Pocket-PC, HP expanded memory card, and HP synchronization cable. [*]ALL THIS FOR ONLY $2345.99! PDS FUNCTIONS [*]Self Test [*]PID monitoring & recording [*]Module Programming [*]Service Functions like, but not limited to, ABS bleed and key fob programming [*]Power Balance [*]BENEFITS OF PDS Low cost - the VCM-PDS kit is less than half the price of WDS Versatile - it can be used both in the service bay and for on-the-road testing Accurate - quick and easy features make it very useable for accurate diagnosis Adaptable - the VCM can be used with future diagnostic platforms, reducing future costs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted August 28, 2005 Share Posted August 28, 2005 yeah i saw that and let me add a little bit of inside info to that. ive been told that when IDS is released at the end of the year rotunda will be releasing a PDS to IDS conversion kit that will give you the cables(laptop to vcm and longer vcm to obd2 connector cable) and software to have the basic IDS functions. i consider the basic functions being the same stuff you can do on WDS without extra cables. so those of you that have a VCM or have been thinking about buying one for PDS you will be able to upgrade when the time comes. the same VCM will work for PDS and IDS. there will also be a complete IDS package but i expect that to be expensive as from what i hear it will be offered with the panasonic laptop that is being used in the beta testing. i have requested to the IDS group to get the laptop specs posted on the Ford website seeing we are getting close to the expected December release time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 29, 2005 Author Share Posted August 29, 2005 Quote: there will also be a complete IDS package but i expect that to be expensive as from what i hear it will be offered with the panasonic laptop that is being used in the beta testing. i have requested to the IDS group to get the laptop specs posted on the Ford website seeing we are getting close to the expected December release time. So are you suggesting that the IDS will come as a "kit" and we will have to buy a specific laptop computer to get and use it? I was under the impression that you need a VCM, the IDM and a PC or laptop. If i already have a really good laptop and a VCM the all I theoretically need is the IDS/software/cable kit.Okay, duhhh. I read that again. We can get individual pieces but you are saying that a complete set up will be made available! Right? Getting to BETA test this stuff, you realize what a lucky SOB you are right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 well im not sure what being planned in terms of support for different laptops. the early info im hearing for minimum specs, 1.4 pentium m or faster processor, windows xp pro, 60gb hard drive, 512mb of ram, 2 or more usb ports, built in wireless or slot to add in a pc card with wireless, dvd drive, and hopefully high speed internet connection at your work. the beta machines are the panasonic toughbook 18 and dell D600. the supported laptops when IDS is released will be the panasonic and the dell D600/D610. the D610 is what Dell offeres now. im also testing my Dell 600M which is the non-business version of the D600. another beta tester tried his toshiba laptop and had all kinds of trouble but he thinks it was because he was trying to get IDS to run on XP home. as i said from what ive been told the plan for the complete IDS package will include the panasonic laptop. ive also asked the head of the IDS group if they are planning any special discounts for the laptops like they did with the pocket pc's. as of now IDS has been pretty rock solid. the other day i was reprogramming an 03 explorer, surfing the PTS site for info, had yahoo messenger going chatting with my wife and another family member then another tech came to sync his pocketpc for calibration files for PDS. this was all happening on my laptop and IDS never skipped a beat while running in the backround doing the reprogramming. we have been told the next software release we get should be the pre-release beta. meaning if that release is ok then IDS will be a go to the dealers. i would expect that release in october then IDS is planned for December. the only downside to the beta test is i have to send all the IDS stuff back, i cant keep anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Ooooh... now I'm gettin' a boner.... My latest Toshiba laptop was pretty much skookum last year when I bought it. Hopefully I'll be ready when the boss says he wont buy a VCM for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 lol yeah Jim im really enjoying the ability to have service info, diagnostic ability and fun stuff all in one machine. in reality you will find that you will want both IDS and PDS. IDS for in the shop diagnosing then switching to PDS when you need to road test. the time to switch tools is very minimal. ive had IDS going on a vehicle, then when the switch was needed for a road test you just unplug the laptop to VCM cable and hook up the pocketpc and attaching cable to the VCM, fire up PDS and your off. the total time to switch tool is about 2 min give or take a minute. you just leave the OBD2 cable and VCM hooked up to the vehicle since the same VCM works for both IDS and PDS. trust me when i say, road testing with a laptop is worse then taking the WDS on a road test. this latest IDS beta release has been a bit more buggy then the last and we have been burning up the phones with problems that have popped up but its been fun finding problems and stumping the guys back at Ford with the problems. once they figure them out they usually call and thanks us for stumping them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Sigh. I've got over 3k in mine..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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