2004 TURBO FLUTTER WHEN WARM ONLY

OHNO60 · October 13, 2007

ANY OF YOU GUYS EVER RUN INTO A TURBO FLUTTER SOUND ON LIGHT/MID WAY THROTTLE(ACCELERATION) WHILE DRIVING. TURBOCHARGER WAS REPLACED AT OTHER DEALER WITHIN LAST FEW WEEKS.PASSED EGR TEST,PASSED VISUAL OF EGR,ETC. HAPPENS WITH VGTDC AT 50PERCENT AND PRODUCING 15 PSI MGP.OTHER WISE ITS A BAT OUT OF HELL, CLEAN NO SMOKE EXCEPT WHEN FLUTTER ISSUE OCCURS. ICP GOOD AND IPR APPROPRIATE WHEN OCCURING.TURBO WAS REPLACED AT OTHER DEALER FOR LOW POWER AND BLACK SMOKE. WHAT I DID NOTICE IS WHEN FLUTER OCCURS EGR READINGS GET REAL ERRATIC.DEALER ALSO REPLACED VGT SOL. TOO TRUCKS A 04 F550. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif THANKS IN ADVANCE GUYS!

Rickster42 · October 14, 2007

take a real close look at what the ebp sensor VOLTAGE pid looks like when this is going on. I had one do the same thing with a bad ebp sensor. hth

OHNO60 · October 14, 2007

give it a look on monday. thanks rickster

Alex Bruene · October 14, 2007

If it's an early build, check the status of the VGT learn. Could be something that simple.

Keith Browning · October 14, 2007

For some time our friend Jim Warman has been preaching the advantages of looking at voltages instead of values. I have taken that advice and after a year or so have seen the light, er, the voltage. When it comes to tough driveability diagnosis looking at PIDs can get difficult if nothing "looks" out of place or jumps out at you. If you have a hunch, record your PIDs in both mode/per AND voltages. If there is glitch you will likely find it though I admit, doing so requires patience, practice and ZOOMING in on the playback screen. A little intuition helps as well but that is something you have to learn on your own! If you have seen the various screen shots of playbacks some of us have posted this is what a few of us have been trying to share.

One last thing: Make data recordings of the event when it is occurring. You can play back the recordings selecting as little or as much data as you need. I recommend going to Power Stroke Central and locating the PID list for making recordings. The clue to a diagnosis may be somewhere you never expected it so show up. Furthermore, don't be afraid to defer to the HotLine for assistance. The is an easy to use upload function on WDS/IDS that will allow the engineers to look at your recordings with you. ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS while doing this. Most of those guys are willing to help and do. I have learned a lot about reading data from several of them and its stuff you WILL NOT learn in a classroom.

I do hope that you find something!

Tony302600 · October 14, 2007

Awesome keith, you've summed up what ive learned from this website. Also remember what u told me when i had a wicked drivebility conern which is, turn pids into graphs that arent. e.g. I had a wicked drive conern with bucking and jerking 8 months ago. Keith told me to turn FICMSYNC and SYNC into bar graphs, wala found the graphs going on/off rapidly and u couldnt tell from just looking at the box saying "on/off"

Also ive been "tightening up" pid parameters to find int. conerns. That is one of the best thing ive learned to do. ( that came from "advanced engine diag class."

Jim Warman · October 14, 2007

You've learned about something we all seem to forget at one time or another.... "scan rate" and "update time"... The tool and/or the PCM can become the limiting factor in some instances....

Modern data rates are much higher than those we saw back in the early days of EFI... but still slow enough that stuff can fall between the "cracks".

I realize that many techs just want to get the hell out of there at 5:00... others may not have shop access after hours.... the last thing they want to do is spend time in the shop after hours... especially if they aren't clocked in.... But it is times like this that we can use to make ourselves better and more valuable....

I am constantly after my guys to "play with their toys".... not that they take the advice, but the IDS is a very powerful tool... if we let it be one. The ability to tailor the display is fantastic.... histogram, digital, graph.... If we make a recording, we can toggle between these choices to see the data in different fashions.... Adjusting the scale.... defaults look at a very broad spectrum.... we can narrow down our display scale and make "mountains out of molehills" - figuratively speaking.

I often look at a recording and change the usual digital displays at the top to a graph or histogram "just to see what's there".... sometimes, it can be a nice surprise....

We're always asking "what"..... sometimes "why" can be a more important question....

OHNO60 · October 17, 2007

WELL JUST AN FYI GUYS! EGR WAS BAD. THE VALVE WAS CLEAN AND PASSED THE EGR TEST. WHEN THE LOADED ENGINE FLUTTER CONCERN WAS PRESENT EGR VP WAS ALL OVER THE MAP. AFTER ROADTEST AND LUNCH SEE NEW BROADCAST MESSAGE FOR EGR REPLACEMENT FOR FLUTTER AND SURGE!HAHAHAA OH WELL.

Fordtechnician · October 25, 2007

I have an 03 with the same problem. Passed the egr test. Turbo learn was OK. Road tested with ids hooked up didn't see anything. Unplugged egr, ran perfect. Replaced EGR. Relearned turbo relearn, still does it. Help!!!!!

Mekanik · October 25, 2007

You may have an intake leak. It does not have to be very big. I'm assuming you have a inferred ebp sensor. Check your intake hoses, cac hoses. You may want to smoke test the intake and the intercooler.

Tony302600 · October 25, 2007

is ure map reading low and erratic. we've had a bunch like that were map is fluctuating between .3 psi causing repeat po132b. One was broken vane studs in the turbo, and other was y-pipe leaking, and one was turbo breather hose o-ring missing. Yea they are very sensitive and Ford is making a reprogram to make it less sensitive.

Fordtechnician · October 25, 2007

Well I just got done smoke machining it and found no leaks. Hotline told me to do this. What next???? Turbo? VGT?? Cant do a turbo test cause it isn't in the software on 2003s.

mchan68 · October 25, 2007

Well I just got done smoke machining it and found no leaks. Hotline told me to do this. What next???? Turbo? VGT?? Cant do a turbo test cause it isn't in the software on 2003s.

Have you tried cleaning out IAT#2?

Fordtechnician · October 29, 2007

No, I didn't clean that.

OHNO60 · October 29, 2007

I HAD MANY ISSUES WITH AN IAT2 SCUMMED UP. ALLOT OF EGR ISSUES THATS FOR SURE. BELIEVE IT OR NOT BRAKE CLEAN WITH A STRAW IN THE NOZZLE WORKS BEST FOR ME. THESE GUYS AUTOMATICALLY CLEAN THE IAT2 WHEN EVER WORKING ON AN EGR ISSUE.KINDA LIKE INSURANCE.

Fordtechnician · November 18, 2007

Well instead of cleaning it I just replaced it. It was all scummed up. Owner stated it worked flawlessly for a week and a half. Its coming back for the same condition Monday.

Jim Warman · November 18, 2007

Does coking seem to be the issue with this one? Keep TSB 07-22-05 in mind...

I've seen engines dusted early in life making coking one of the issues.... It is difficult to make a customer see that his EGR and VGT are giving trouble because of his fake-a-lou K&N piece of crap.

Just as often, I see over 3500 hours on an engine with only 50,000 miles on it..... and the owners change oil by the odometer reading....

HTH