SrA_Heise Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I have a little story for you all that you may find interesting. I am a mechanic with the US Air Force at their Air Guard installation in Milwaukee. Recently on 9/09/2007 we had a 2003 F-350 4x4 6.0 Four Door spring a massive oil leak, it was out on the flightline and shot oil everywhere. Our policy in the military is to use warranties to their fullest extent. Given this truck has been properly serviced, maintained at all intervals, and only has about 30,000 miles on it, it was determined to tow this into the local ford dealer because it was apparently an engine problem. We tried to determine the oil leak, but couldnt really tell (we are used to the 6.5's in tactical vehicles and big diesels). It was towed into ford and dropped off in front of their bay, the service writer said they would look at it first thing monday morning. A few days go by and it is time for me to do my Estimated time in Commission report for my commander. I call ford, and they say it will be ready in a few days they need to order in some parts. Another week goes by, I call ford again, then they say it will be done tommorow. So so far it has been there a week and half. They call two days later and told me it was ready. I hopped in our shop truck and drove down with another tech. As soon as we pulled in the parking lot we saw the oil slick underneath the truck, it was leaking oil worse just sitting there. I brough the service manager out and showed her, told her we were not taking it until it was fixed. Now, another week has gone by, Call again, once again they say it will be done in two days. They informed me that it needed crank bearings, an oil pan gasket, new front cover, lpop, and a few other things. Another two weeks go by, and various phone calls, to ford, it has now been over a month. They said it would be done in another few days, the wrong parts came in they said. Well now it is about 10/15/07. We now get a call from ford saying its all done and ready. Once again I go down with our tow truck, and another tech. Upon pulling in the lot, we see a slick of antifreeze. We go up to the truck, pop the hood, antifreeze, and tranny fluid everywhere. Take a closer look, whoever put the engine in didnt put any of the clamps on any hose. Also the trans cooler lines were loose, and no clamps on the cooler. Also about 3 wiring harnesses were off randomly. I bring the service manager out, and the tech. I showed them the problems, the tech got very arrogant with me because I would not accept the truck. Now the service writer tells me to wait outside they would fix it right away, they pull it around back, park it. It was out of sight, but I could still have a clear shot at it. We waited an hour, noone touched it. Now the writer comes out, says it will be done tommorow. She calls the next morning, tells us its done. We drive it back and the CEL comes on when we get back to base. They forgot to hook up one connector on the right side of the motor, connected it and cleared the codes, been fine ever since, now it wont run again, two weeks later. Blows lots of black smoke, no power etc.. Just thought you guys might find this story interesting, I love ford, i have 2 1997 F-250's with the 7.3, and a 1974 bronco that is my off roader. So I have nothing against ford, this was just unacceptable. What do you guys think? Was this dealer yanking us around? They also refused to give us a loaner after the truck was down for 3 weeks. I dont know how they will stay in business if they treat other people like that. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks to Jim ive taken the role of "if this was my truck, would i accept this." And ive been doing awesome since. Its probably just that dealer cause we've had, hacked up crap from other dealers also and we look at it like....who the hell did this? That story sucks, makes you think if they're doing that to their customers how Ford is being perceived and people shots about ALL dealerships because of one incompitent one.\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 Yeah, Like i said I love ford, always have always will... But what kind of treatment do customers get who just have a diesel truck to haul their horses, equipment trailer, etc.. that arent mechanics. They pick up their truck, think its all good, when its not. Who gets stuck with the bill when the trans cooler lines blow off that they didnt clamp back on? BTW, can i mention the dealer name in here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks to Jim ive taken the role of "if this was my truck, would i accept this." And ive been doing awesome since. Its probably just that dealer cause we've had, hacked up crap from other dealers also and we look at it like....who the hell did this? That story sucks, makes you think if they're doing that to their customers how Ford is being perceived and people shots about ALL dealerships because of one incompitent one.\ I just had one in yesterday, that had almost everything replaced under the sun (OASIS history showed head gaskets, EGR coooler eight glow plugs, turbo, EGR valve replaced less than 5,000 kms. ago), complaining of lack of power, black smoke, and coolant puking out of de-gas bottle. The guy took it to another dealer before it came into my hands. Apparently, they were going to try hoop him for two new heads (out of warranty). When I got into it, I found the turbo up-pipe to turbo connection crooked. It took me all of two minutes to find this with a smoke test through the EP sensor tube!!! I had one bitch of a time trying to seat the turbo properly to the y-pipe. The guy that did this repair filled the coolant right up to the top. All pedestal bolts were left loose. The oil drain tube was bent to ratshit, and leaking oil all over the top of the engine. I don't consider myself a pro at working on these things, but I DEFINITELY wouldn't have released this truck to the customer like this. Cost of repair on this job was just a turbo drain tube and my labour to replace the turbo onto exhaust PROPERLY, as well as drain excess coolant. After a brief road test, monitoring all the PIDs ECT, EOT, ICP, IPR, EGR, EBP, MAP and MGP, I was happy, and SO WAS THE CUSTOMER. It really does make you wonder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted October 26, 2007 Author Share Posted October 26, 2007 Well now the truck came into our shop at the base today. Leaking oil off the passengers rear side of the motor, and you have to start it about 4 times to keep it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted October 26, 2007 Share Posted October 26, 2007 I can't believe people release vehicles like that. I'd honestly be threatening the dealership that you'll swing a deal with one of your pilots and have them deliver a nice little "good morning" in the form of napalm. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Nathan.... this horror story is totally amazing... But we see it repeated on other forums too many times.... I don't see how guys like those techs can remain employed... I don't see how they could ever ask for a raise with a straight face and I don't see how their employers can keep the doors open.... And I'm surprised their service advisors aren't on a suicide watch list.... I sure wouldn't want to be the guy dealing with you and trying to justify that kind of shoddy sh!t.... I'm quite soft-spoken and very reserved.... I certainly couldn't see myself looking that tech in they eye and telling him I think he's a hack and should go back to work for the auto wrecker.... Since the truck still has warranty left, I'd think long and hard about pulling it out of that shop and handing it off to another Ford dealer... maybe the specter of a work order full of ineffective repairs might have them see the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Unbelievable Nathan. Hacks like that should have their licences pulled and the Service manager should have a set of cohoney's to deal with it. I agree with Jim. Find another dealership. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted November 2, 2007 Author Share Posted November 2, 2007 Well its at another dealership. Wont start all the time, hard starts, and leaking oil. They just called and said the motor needed to be pulled. Needs a set of head gaskets now to start out with. Ill keep ya all updated. They just put a short block in our other one at the new dealer we are going to. Pulled the motor, put the short block together, and gave it back in about 3 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Now... believe me, I'm not trying to be contrary... and we both have to realize that all we are getting is the pap any of these shops i smeering on you.... and I've had my fair share of electrical concerns and apprentice concerns that I'm losing touch with some diesel stuff... But if "unreliable starting" is a concern - I don't think head gaskets is going to change that.... I think this could get interesting... and I wish you the best of luck..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 Well I got it back from ford. One oil leak is fixed with a new set of head gaskets, however there seems to be oil coming out of the exhuast manifold on the passengers side of the engine. A pretty steady drip coming out of the exhaust manifold gasket, and blowing blue smoke most of the time now. Going back to ford for round 4.... This is a nightmare, the truck has been down since Sept 9th in the shop. Its now Nov 14th.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 Well, 21 Nov I went to the dealer to pick it up. Said it was a cracked valve cover gasket, the tech pinched it when he put it in or something. I go out to the lot, now it wouldnt start, then it started hard and died. Still at ford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 What dealership is it at... I feel bad for that poor truck. Dont these guys test drive these trucks when they're done? Did you raise hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 It is at Badger Ford, in Milwaukee, WI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLR95 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Im young(24) and most of my friends blow me smoke for working a dealership and how they don't do anything right. I am still learning myself hoping to be 6.0 certified by the end of the year if not the start of next but I have helped our lead tech work on some stuff and he is a master of taking it apart and puttin it back together and doing it right. I truely idol this guy and what he does and his knowledge of the engine. And speaking of Badger Ford, I had a buddies client who he hauls horses for come into our shop on his way to lexington ky from wisconsin with 7 horses on a trailer and no power. Had 3 grand worth of stuff done on a 7.3 for low power and said his low power happened almost the same place everytime he went south. Happened twice within 10 miles of each other. They put a fuel pump on new tank and a bunch of other crap. Brought it in dropped the tank and found 3 shop rags layin in the botton of the tank and pieces in the filters of the pickup unit. Now what kinda work is that? I love my job and want to know everything there is about diesels and have satisfied customers and to me that is just poor worksmanship. Take pride in what you do. Let that customer have faith and know they can bring their truck in for any repair and know that it is done right. Sorry I'm off my soap box now but this is why dealers get a bad rep for poor quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Sorry I'm off my soap box now but this is why dealers get a bad rep for poor quality. Welcome to the DTS Chris. There's a few soap boxes laying around here so try not to trip over any, you should fit right in here! This topic serves as evidence of what can go wrong. Not knowing the people at the mentioned dealer we can assume that poor workmanship played a role in this unfortunate sequence of events. Perhaps it involves individuals who just don't care, don't have the aptitude or lack the skills. For years now we have been hearing horror stories about poor service and ineffective repair attempts at dealerships. There are those who are skilled, trained and have a lot of pride in what they do. You sound like you are well on your way to becoming such an individual. Continue to learn from this technician you work with but take the time to ask yourself questions and learn to find the answers. If you like working on these trucks and engines, you will quickly become a valuable asset to anyone that hires you which can yield many rewards. What do your friends do for a living and what are they smoking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Hi, Chris..... I think I may have earned the title of "soapbox king"..... You can't bring up any subject that I can't spout off about.... Before I start... tell your friends to go pound sand.... I don't know if they work in the trade... if they do, THEY are going to be on the stinky end of the stick if they don't work at a dealer.... A while ago (OK, it was sometime in the early 70's) I was young and full of piss and vinegar. I was "EVERYMAN!!!". I didn't need a sound knowledge of product 'cause I could fix damned near anything. Oh, I did pretty good on my wits and abilities... if nothing else, I did put my heart into my work (you will often see me use terms like "work", "job" and "career"... they are all very different from each other).... But there were ever so many times that I was a day late and a dollar short. Five years ago, I came back to a dealer.... I"m gettin' long in the tooth.... If there's a bad habit, I have it.... I was real worried about going back on flat rate.... I was real worried about the technology I would need to embrace.... I'm old and I can remember the first HEI distributor I saw - WTF am I going to do with that? Today, here I am.... I am customer oriented - happy customers = many good things. I have decent and ever growing product knowledge (clue - think electronic feature group.... be the guy that knows accessories.... how to train TPMS sensors without furbling through manuals.... learn radio displays... be "the answer guy") - spend your own free time at it (those reality shows will rot your brain, anyway). Play with electrical.... learn how to use your DMM properly... learn how to use the PC/ED to your advantage.... Powers and grounds get load tested... matter of fact, if your testing a wires continuity, load testing is the only way to do it. The guy that wrote the PC/ED is a moron and probably still has trouble at school when it comes to "sandbox" time. Speaking of electrical... work very hard at electrical.... Kirschoffs law is probably one of the most important. Learn how to do voltage drops properly. Electrical is THE hardest thing for any man to wrap his head around.... surprising because it is so very simple and the "laws" never change. If you're good at electrical, you are in the catbird seat. When you work at a dealer, you are at the cutting edge of technology. Working on this stuff is what will earn you a living.... Separate yourself from the "mob". Be judged by your own abilities, accomplishments and knowledge. We all make mistakes.... admit them and acknowledge them and show that you have learned from the experience.... Be honest with your bosses... help your service advisors... be good to your customers. Every time you do something - have a "why". Some day, you will see the importanmce of having a "why". If something is worth doing, it is worth doing to the best of our abilities. It also deserves all of our attention. I've seen too many "techs" with "neck down" syndrome.... They get into a job and go on autopilot... no thought process involved in the repair. This is getting long, and I have so much else to say.... It's getting late so let's skip over a few things and get back to "job", "work" and "career". Career.... this is what I do.... it doesn't matter where I do it. If I am to earn a personal reputation.... there are those things I must learn to enhance that perception. I must also learn how to handle a customer.... how to handle a service advisor.... so many things. This is my "career".... My "wurk" (always put "you" in your "wurk").... this is what I am doing in my bay. It needs to be of the highest quality that "I" am capable of.... The things I do are all about "me". My job.... this term is a little bit interchangeable. In the main sense.... my "job" is where I do "wurk" that involves my "career". It comes natural to call one instance of my "wurk" "A" job. When I punch out at the end of the day.... I try to leave my job behind... I take my "career" with me where-ever I go. Cut to the chase.... I make a nearly obscene wage... My hours can be long but that can be the nature of the beast. I do what I need to do to make me better than the next guy (I have a very low thresh-hold for substandard repair or anything else that may place me or my chosen career in a bad light... I'm not about to hack my way to stardom). Decide where you want your trade to take you - the go there. How obscene is my paycheque? One recent "impulse" buy was an 05 Mustang convertible... My wife rarely gives me the opportunity to drive it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hahaha.gif Hi, Chris..... I think I may have earned the title of "soapbox king"..... You can't bring up any subject that I can't spout off about.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Not to hi-jack the thread ( even though jim just did ) but, I was talking to the FSE about "ohming a wire, and voltage dropping a wire" this is what he said "Ford is going to do away with ohm tests on wires. They are coming up with a way to "dumb-down" voltage drop tests on the wires. They now understand that a wire can be ohms, spec is <5 ohms, but there is one strand of wire holding it on, and wont let enough current through. Said in 09 u'll see it in the workshop manuals." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLR95 Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Well thanks for the welcome fellas. I am trying to be that successful technician that people want to bring there vehicle too. Actually learned a hard lesson last week had two trucks sittin in the shop for about a week working between the two both 7.3's and was trying to follow pc/ed and just gettin drilled. It sucked but had another truck with a similiar symptom as one and thought it through before doing anything and got it right so it made the hard lesson valueable. I do try to take pride in my work. To be honest I have worked in a gm truck assembly plant before going back to turning wrenches. Management hated me because of my quality ethics. They want trucks out the door and don't care how it happens. I have taken this mentallity to the dealership. Thanks to all for the words of wisedom. I am trying to work with the electrical as it is not my strong suit by far but I know I need to be good at it. Im only 24 but trying to get ahead of the game while I can. I will try and learn everything from our lead tech but he is almost like a robot and is on cruise control when it comes to 6.0's with as many as he has seen. So usually I drill him with questions and try to understand the process and then go from there still on a big learning curve and tryin to take in as much as possible. Another reason why I joined this site because of fellow technicians that seem to have pride in their jobs and are willing to help the wet behind the ears kid that is eager to learn and maybe help as well although it looks like most have been in the game long enough to see it all. As for my friends most don't work on vehicles for a living some are farm kids that work on their own stuff and call me for help when they don't understand and others are just heres and theres. I don't know if I will stick with the dealership forever would like to venture on my own one day but until then want to get all the experience possible. Our lead tech has worked there over twenty years and hasn't seen a raise in over 3 years so if thats the case I won't stick around any longer than I have too knowing I can go elsewhere and make more money and do the same work. Sorry for hijacking this thread just thought I would respond here after reading about the dealership mentioned doing the work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrA_Heise Posted December 14, 2007 Author Share Posted December 14, 2007 well the truck is back, with another new IPR, seems to be running ok now, havent seen anymore leaks, it was down from sept 9 through dec 3rd I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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