Tony302600 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 WPI ( our shitty warranty processing ) thinks to do this TSB including Diag, egr/oil cooler replacements, putting it back together and then finding out the head gaskets are bad equals to a total of 15.3 hours. Now im going off SLTS and just replacement of oil/egr and then head gaskets is 19ish. Plus diag would be in the 20's. Now i know that you win some you lose some, but they are killing us on this TSB so i was just curious what you guys are getting on average when doing oil/egr coolers, then putting it back together, then doing the head gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 The TSB states "Use SLTS Operations If Available; Claim Additional Diagnosis Or Labor Performed As Actual Time" so my assumption is that you should not take a bad beating on this job. It also depends on the technician due to different ability and speed. I am not a particularly fast tech and I take it in the cheeks EVERY time I get one of these so I feel your pain but 15.3 for what you explained is light if you include diagnosis and other related repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 I'm just frustrated because without diag its alot more. I understand its a you win some you lose some deal on the 6.0's but for WPI to tell me manager that diesel warranty is high because we're charging ford too much for this TSB is beyond me. Oh well. it just irks me when we (me and the other diesel tech) always have to argue for this TSB with our warranty company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 There are 2 EGR cooler labor ops though, make sure that you're getting paid for the correct one. One pays .2, and that's if they're assuming that the intake was already off (i.e head-gasket job or oil cooler replacement) and the other one is the base labor op, which pays 5.0 now. The 15.3 for the head gaskets, 5.0 for the EGR cooler (initial replacement), whatever else you get for the oil cooler while the EGR cooler is being replaced, plus diag, injector re-sealing, so on... this job should pay out close to 25 hours I would think. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 what do you guys charge off warranty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 The major problems with this TSB are that most of the labor ops needed overlap each other and the amount of M-Time makes most WA's behinds pucker. You need to change the way you do the repair to suit the time you are going to get paid. Or continue to get blown out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 bedford....if you follow the TSB it says to do the oil+egr cooler if they are bad, put it back together... testdrive it for HEad gaskets, then dothe head gaskets if they fail the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 bedford....if you follow the TSB it says to do the oil+egr cooler if they are bad, put it back together... testdrive it for HEad gaskets, then dothe head gaskets if they fail the test. Is that really how everyone does this repair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 5, 2007 Author Share Posted November 5, 2007 Originally Posted By: Tony302600 bedford....if you follow the TSB it says to do the oil+egr cooler if they are bad, put it back together... testdrive it for HEad gaskets, then dothe head gaskets if they fail the test. Is that really how everyone does this repair? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 I realize that is how the tsb is written, and if you follow the instructions, you can take this engine apart and put it back together 3 times. I just wanted to know if this how other techs do it. The place I'm at right now, there is no way they would consider paying my to take it apart and re-assemble it. I don't agree with it. I did headgaskets with a couple injectors a few months ago and they initially paid me the 1.8 for injectors in addition to headgaskets and then Ford said no way. Thats overlap. When I pleaded my case to the warranty administrator he was like sorry, I'll make it up to you. Which he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 6, 2007 Author Share Posted November 6, 2007 Mekanic.....i have had 2 that, that happened to me on. EGR cooler was blown hydrolocking the engine when it sat. Replaced oil+ egr cooler..test drove it, psi on my coolant gauge shot up so fast it popped the hose off my gauge. That one needed a head it was badly warped. Another one failed the egr cooler test, passed the psi test drive test but had coolant coming out the degas bottle....that was headgaskets. Both those paid 20-24 hours. Now all of a sudden they pay 15.6 and they keep going lower. I have one right now that has coolant loss thats untracable, ive checked everything and realized when they load the shit outta it, that the head bolts stretch. i cant verify it cause its always in my stall unloaded ( stakebed 550 ). Hotline said replace the usual egr, oil, headgaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 We had a shop meeting of the diesel techs, WA, SM and SA's on this TSB. We needed a way to watch warranty numbers, turn vehicles in a timely manner for customer satisfaction and in the end retain technicians, all of which is impossible the way this TSB is written versus how it is reimbursed. The simple fact is if Ford can "streamline" their diagnosis for DPFE and ABS sensors to their benefit, you need to come up with a solution that fits your area, shop needs and customer profile so you can remain in business. What is it the Marines say, "improvise and adapt"? You need to sit down as we did with management and talk sensibly and if they can't budge, you already have infomation you need to make a decision in your own best interest to act on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 OUTSTANDING! Another five head banger salute! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Gary that is one of the best posts I have ever read and it is very constructive to get everyone involved to find a solution. I have had random discussions concerning some of these TSB's and getting paid to properly repair the customers trucks and get properly paid for doing so. I will be requesting such a meeting at my dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 Mekanic.....i have had 2 that, that happened to me on. EGR cooler was blown hydrolocking the engine when it sat. Replaced oil+ egr cooler..test drove it, psi on my coolant gauge shot up so fast it popped the hose off my gauge. That one needed a head it was badly warped. Another one failed the egr cooler test, passed the psi test drive test but had coolant coming out the degas bottle....that was headgaskets. Both those paid 20-24 hours. Now all of a sudden they pay 15.6 and they keep going lower. I have one right now that has coolant loss thats untracable, ive checked everything and realized when they load the shit outta it, that the head bolts stretch. i cant verify it cause its always in my stall unloaded ( stakebed 550 ). Hotline said replace the usual egr, oil, headgaskets. I see. You try to the right thing and not just replace both coolers and headgaskets with every truck that loses coolant. I have read on the Ford message board how some people are just replacing everything. Thats really not the way I want to operate. I don't really understand how the 2nd truck passed the road test while monitoring the coolant pressure, but had coolant still coming out of the degas bottle. I think the real problem here is Ford is letting the dealers come up with thier own labor ops. If they said follow this peocedure and to replace the oil cooler and then road test and replace the headgaskets paid this much there wouldn't be so much trouble. My warranty administrator is afraid of getting us in trouble from paying me too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 8, 2007 Author Share Posted November 8, 2007 Originally Posted By: Tony302600 Mekanic.....i have had 2 that, that happened to me on. EGR cooler was blown hydrolocking the engine when it sat. Replaced oil+ egr cooler..test drove it, psi on my coolant gauge shot up so fast it popped the hose off my gauge. That one needed a head it was badly warped. Another one failed the egr cooler test, passed the psi test drive test but had coolant coming out the degas bottle....that was headgaskets. Both those paid 20-24 hours. Now all of a sudden they pay 15.6 and they keep going lower. I have one right now that has coolant loss thats untracable, ive checked everything and realized when they load the shit outta it, that the head bolts stretch. i cant verify it cause its always in my stall unloaded ( stakebed 550 ). Hotline said replace the usual egr, oil, headgaskets. I don't really understand how the 2nd truck passed the road test while monitoring the coolant pressure, but had coolant still coming out of the degas bottle. Well....according to 2 hotline engineers the pressure never got over 12psi because, the headaskets were bad taking the cap out and venting the coolant out so rapidly that it never held enough pressure. I had one that vented at 13psi and they told me that was WAYY low. Anytime you have coolant coming out the degas bottle they said replace the cap because its done. I just finished one doing the tsb, have every single punch, followed it to the T and everytime i touched the truck, it has a punch time on it. I did everything by the tsb and how ford wants it done, (including the warranty nazi's) so we will see how it gets paid. I understand you win some you lose some but when you follow procedure and just head gaskets pays an hour less then the whole ticket got paid i get kinda mad. But oh well. Now something that concerns me... If you do the tsb and find that just the headgaskets are bad, every hotline engineer says to do the oil and egr cooler also. I havent had one yet tell me otherwise. The way that i look at is ( and from experience ) if coolant is coming out of the exhaust its a bad egr cooler from a restricted oil cooler. Replace both. If its coming out of the degas bottle and/or you cant determine where the coolant is going...9times outta 10 ive had it been the head gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 so update on the truck i just did and got paid 21.2 which is ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 The main labor ops here are EGR cooler(9456A) at 5.0 hours, oil cooler(6642A) at 5.3 hours and head gaskets(6051AT) for 14.3 hours. Now lets be honest here, if you are truly following the TSB by the steps specified, this TSB should pay a minimum of 24.6 hours. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 15, 2007 Author Share Posted November 15, 2007 I know what ure saying, but their have been times ive been burned by it because i had coolant in the egr port hydrolocking the engine. You have to replace the egr cooler and oil cooler first. Then on a test drive the degas bottle is shooting coolant out. Like I said...Our warranty company sees that tsb and folds. Everything else they take a stand except that tsb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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