Keith Browning Posted November 23, 2005 Share Posted November 23, 2005 This is a great article on current and future injection technology. It shows that there are new systems under development and on the roads of the world. Coming to a Ford near us? The Latest Technology From the Diesel Supply Chain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Interesting article. One can only wonder when some of those things will trickle down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted November 25, 2005 Share Posted November 25, 2005 Interesting article. One can only wonder when some of those things will trickle down Some already have. Dual stage turbos? sound familiar?Common rail injection, and you gotta believe the big boys are already experimenting with PE injectors. It's only a matter of time boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 This article is really only the tip of the iceberg. We have some pretty amazing things coming in the next 5-7years. Some good, some bad but eventually necessary. Should be fun..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Considering that injection pressures are skyrocketing (anyone take the time to figure out what 2200 bar means to us?). I can only imagine what a pump capable of producing these pressures is going to cost... What will it take to keep 36000+ PSI where it is supposed to be? Elmer Fudd said it best... "Be afwaid,,, be vewy, vewy afwaid...". Getting back to "I've had it...".... remember the days when having a dwell guage and a timing light made you "state of the art"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 I can't remember exactly, but isn't a bar equal to an atmosphere which would be 14.7 psi? At 2200 bar that would be 32,340 psi. Aren't we already approaching those kinds of pressures at the nozzle? Also seems to me that the more the fuel is atomized in an effort to reduce emmissions the more times injection would be required to produce equal amounts of power. I'm sorry, I'm thinking out loud, and I'm probably wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captchas Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 wait till some of vw's new motor tech, filters down more . like the new direct injected gas motor, the rail pressures on that bad boy are way up there also. they also have a 1.4 liter motor thats capible of 240 hp twin turbo direct injection gas. the tech of the future is going to see some really wild things to work on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 26, 2005 Author Share Posted November 26, 2005 Aren't we already approaching those kinds of pressures at the nozzle? Also seems to me that the more the fuel is atomized in an effort to reduce emissions the more times injection would be required to produce equal amounts of power. I'm sorry, I'm thinking out loud, and I'm probably wrong. My 2¢ : From what I already know about the current technology through experience, the HEUI injectors or just about any type of unit injectors just have too much going on inside them mechanically. I just don't think that they are capable of the control over the injection process that emissions and efficiency demands are requiring them to do. By removing the process of raising the injection pressure from within the injector, the injectors and THEIR control component will have much more accurate control over injection. You haven't forgotten about the 6.0L Pilot Injection experiment have you? Here's a statement made on the PTS web site: Quote: Question: What is pilot injection? Why intermittent dropout? Answer: Pilot Injection is a firing of the injector for a short period of time (750ms) in advance of the main injection. We use it to shape the rate of cylinder pressure increase... reducing the noise. We see intermittent drop outs as we decrease the width of the firing pulse because the injector has problems reacting quickly enough. I believe I read that Toyota has a diesel running around (not in the US) with an injection system that is capable of SEVEN injection pulses for one firing! Now that is control. Now, I am not an expert on fuel injection or the dynamics of combustion but with that kind of control, getting the most of all that energy contained in diesel fuel is much more effective. This goes a little beyond the reduction of noise. If you extract all of the energy it has then you have also reduced your particulate emissions. I am sure that tweaking the injection pulses will also provide more power when demanded as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted November 26, 2005 Share Posted November 26, 2005 Wow, lots of thoughts on this topic. First 1 bar is near 14.5psi so your calculations are close. I am not sure what pressures the 7.3L/6.0L are running but they are probably fairly near that. Better atomized fuel doesnt reduce power it improves it. The reason the power goes down is a function of the EGR usage and the actual timing of the injections. As EGR percentage goes up the fuel requirement goes up to meet a requested torque also goes up. More fuel means more emissions hence the vicious cycle. Lastly if we burn all the fuel you will minimize the particulates but NOx will also go up as a function of combustion temps/pressure. NOx is the major target in the next set of emission rules. I am not surprised Toyota has control software capable of using 7 injections but the real trick is getting the right mix of timing and quanitity to minimize emissions, maximize power and maintain an acceptable level of driveability. The guys doing the calibrations dont just throw values in and hope it performs correctly. There is years of testing involved. In many cases just one little part will take months to get right on. Time will tell whether or not the people who calibrate it have done their job. Has anyone else seen this months 4wheel and offroad? There is an article about the '06 D-MAX. 360hp and 650tq. Interesting reading for those who care.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 I guess I was equating more atomization with a leaner mixture in order to produce less emissions,[lean is good, to lean is no good] then an increase in duty cycle to inject enough fuel to produce power. Excellent observations,and your right , it's a vicious cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cetane Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 If only it was that simple. Off the top of my head I can think of six different things we can adjust that are necessary to get that magic A/F ratio. Each one has its benefits and its downfalls. If one is a little off the emissions penalties rise exponentially. Regulations are so tight that it tough to find that "line". While you are right too lean will get you in trouble I think you would be surprised at the numbers. The bad part is the methods used to get lean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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