G. Bedford Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 The EGR cooler hose now has its own labor time assigned in the SLTS by its base number. Pays 1 hour. Enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 it was only a matter of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 There is officially nothing lucrative about working on these engines anymore. I'm just gonna go over in the corner and curl up into a ball.. let the warranty guys stomp on my junk for a while... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Ah, c'mon Dave, all these 6.0l's will be customer pay soon and you will be rollin' in the dough! Oops, that right , we're now selling the 7/200k plans left and right. Guess you could have something there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 how do you do that job in 1 hour,do you guys take the turbo off? or can you keep it on and just take off that part from the oil cooler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 how do you do that job in 1 hour Get some Stop-Leak and pour it in the... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Didn't we have a topic on this? I know I have some pictures somewhere. Okay, I found it, the search works on this site... Read this topic ---> Orange EGR cooler hose by GregH with a GOOD instruction on how to do it. The first reply is likely the reason there is now a specific labor operation for a measly hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Ah, c'mon Dave, all these 6.0l's will be customer pay soon and you will be rollin' in the dough! Oops, that right , we're now selling the 7/200k plans left and right. Guess you could have something there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif This is why I bailed out of the Ford business a couple of years ago. Could see this coming a mile away! The 6.0L cut 10-12hrs off my weekly paycheck and that was before they started spewing coolant or filling the de-gas bottle with oil. I said at the time they would have to extend the warranty as no one could afford to fix these at 100% customer pay rate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 I knew I took some but for some reason I only took pictures of the installation procedure. As you can see this is done with the turbo on the engine - you don't need to access anything other than the hot side CAC tube to perform this procedure but you will need the right combination of socket/universal and personal dexterity. Disassembly is pretty much the reverse order and quite self explanatory. I think I intended to post an article and now I will. For me, I found that installing the new hose on the adapter and installing them together worked better as I don't have to screw with getting the hose to slide forward. Its a new hose so it bends enough to allow this and of course, a healthy coating of silicone grease makes it easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 I and another tech were looking at this procedure since I had one CP yesterday. Notice in Keith's photo he is using one of the newer "stubby" torx bits that are for sale now. We used the same set-up, but laid an inclinometer along the extension and got a 30 degree angle. I do believe anything past 15 degrees requires you to change the torque specification, kind of like adding an adapter to your torque wrench deal. Interestingly, if you attempt to use a normal torx bit, the angle jumps to 60 degrees and the swivel binds and won't turn. So, two things become apparent: 1) you need to buy a special tool so you can do this repair for the gracious time of one hour 2: How did Ford actually torque the fasteners properly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 One thing to note, that tool combination will only allow you to loosen and final tighten the fastener. I had to work the bolt out and in my hand until the tool could be used. This is fine but this is where your dexterity and patience will be tested sometimes. Some practically fall apart and other for some reason fight you every bit of the way! Torque? HA! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif Thats not the kind of thing I will waste time agonizing over faster torque. Snug it up, its not going anywhere and you aren't going to distort anything except your Torx bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Amen brother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 22, 2007 Author Share Posted November 22, 2007 Well, I feel the OEM procedure should be the most proper way to do a repair. The OEM should be held to the ultimate standard. But if the OEM starts with a "field repair", technicians tend to cut it even further. At what point does it become "butchery"? I mean, what is the standard in our field, "it worked when I finished", so it was OK?. Even when Ford came out with the in-vehicle head gasket procedure they showed the tools they used to do the job their way. Never done it their way 'cause I lift cabs. I have to admit, after almost 25 years of flat-rate, I find the time paid is determining the procedure more than the WSM. In the strictest sense, that the OEM holds to, the torque on these cover fasteners are no less important than wheel lug nuts or the pinion nut on a S110 rear end. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I just want to know how Ford achieved the repair properly so I can bend it from there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Just hanging out till the turkey is done. Hope everyone else has a good day, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Has anyone seen a procedure in the workshop manual to justify this labor time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted November 22, 2007 Share Posted November 22, 2007 Has anyone seen a procedure in the workshop manual to justify this labor time? I spent a little while looking for it today... can't find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 23, 2007 Author Share Posted November 23, 2007 Just plug in a '05 F-250, look in section 303-08. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 Ah, I forgot to look under emissions controls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 Quote: Removal Drain the engine coolant. For additional information, refer to Section 303-03.. Loosen the clamps and remove the charge air cooler (CAC) intake pipe.. Cut the oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose at an angle where shown.. Remove the bolts and the EGR cooler supply port housing cover.. Remove the EGR cooler supply port housing and the part of the oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose that is still attached.. Twist and pull the oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose to remove it from the EGR cooler tube.. Rotate the oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose 90 degrees (1/4-turn) and remove it from the EGR cooler supply port housing. . Installation. Clean and inspect the EGR cooler supply port housing O-ring seals. Install new O-ring seals if necessary.. Lubricate the inside of the new oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose with clean engine coolant and slide it onto the EGR cooler tube far enough so it will not interfere with the installation of the EGR cooler supply port. . Make sure the dual index marks (flat edge) on the hose are facing up.. Lubricate the EGR cooler supply port housing O-ring seals with clean engine coolant and position the EGR cooler supply port on the engine.. Position the EGR cooler supply port housing cover and install the bolts. . Tighten to 10 Nm (89 lb-in).Slide the oil cooler-to-EGR cooler hose onto the EGR cooler supply port housing and rotate it 90 degrees (1/4-turn) until it locks in place.. Install the CAC intake pipe and tighten the clamps. Tighten to 12 Nm (9 lb-ft).. Fill and bleed the engine cooling system. For additional information, refer to Section 303-03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 In the strictest sense, that the OEM holds to, the torque on these cover fasteners are no less important than wheel lug nuts or the pinion nut on a S110 rear end. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I just want to know how Ford achieved the repair properly so I can bend it from there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif I think I'm pretty anal about torquing stuff. I never see anyone else using torque wrenches as much as I do. These bolts that hold the cover on the oil cooler... They'll be fine. You could probably just put 1 bolt on and it would probably be ok. I think these bolts will be fine with "just tight" with a 1/4 inch ratchet. Not that I would ever suggest only using 1 bolt to hold this cover down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Ummmmm, I don't want to get into a "deal" here... but your post is kind of open ended.... I worked for one independant that saw no problem with this scenario.... Dodge 4 cylinder, circa late 80s - early 90s. The starter has a three bolt flange... one bolt can be difficult. This shop owner saw no problem with "accidentally" leaving this difficult bolt out. By and large, this trade is held in low public esteem.... The owner of the aforementioned Dodge bought a car with three starter bolts... if I replace his starter, it ahould have three bolts in it. If I keep one of those bolts, I am a thief.... not to mention a sh!t poor tech (my dear old Mum... as English as the day is long, would tell me "In for a penny - in for a pound"). If I keep one of those bolts, the next guy to work on it might mention the fact that he is missing a starter bolt.... I hope everyone can see where this is going..... Now.... I dearly hope that I am mistaken and I'm not reading too much in to your post.... It's not like I haven't done it before.... There are shortcuts that work.... remove the elbow to replace the EGR cooler hose.... There are shortcuts that wont "fly".... leave a bolt out. Am I anal? Without a doubt. Anything inside the motor gets torqued.... everything else gets looked at closely. Some fasteners (injector hold downs, for example) will get an "unexpected" torque value... quite high considering the size of the fastener.... Other fasteners will get torque values we expect. I don't use a torque wrench on everything, but I use a torque wrench on those fasteners that my experience has shown to be "critical".... (would you believe tie rod sleeve clamp nuts? Most are 41 ft/lb and this is CRITICAL). Once again.... if I have misread your post, I am truly sorry and offer apologies. However, if we are to expect that we will be treated as professionals, we must conduct ourselves as professionals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 26, 2007 Author Share Posted November 26, 2007 No offense taken. Being new to the written word on forums I am still trying to learn how to get across points that are easier explained when spoken. Don't worry, at some later time I may come across a way to better explain and do so then. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I guess now's a bad time to mention that I have a habit of leaving half the head gasket bolts out just because I don't like torquing all 20 of them... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Now your just toying with the old curmudgeon, Dave.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Sometimes I take things maybe a little too literal.... and anything that might affect the way we are perceived by civilians just kinda lights a short fuse... I feel bad about dumping on James like that but I've seen far too many "unique" repairs done by professionals in my life... And, somewhere along the line, we might all be judged by some of this stuff.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Jim, I think you totally misunderstood what I was trying to say. Could 1 bolt hold this cover on without any coolant leaking past that huge o ring? Probably Would an obsessive compulsive person like myself ever do something like that? No way. Even if it saved me a ton of time and I knew it would work, I would not do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I've seen so many different oem's over the years and it still amazes me as to some of the procedures that they require to do the job... How about Cat wants new injector hold down bolts for injector replacement on some of the engines but not on all of them. Detroit wants you to replace Series 60 head bolts replaced with a head gasket job. And so on... But what really makes me wonder if this is all a after thought, is if this is really necessary then WHY WOULDN'T THEY INCLUDE THESE PARTS WITH THE INJECTORS,HEAD SETS AND ETC.... along with the proper torque specs to assist the techs in doing the job the correct way. Boy oh boy if you don't put the Series 60 head bolts in with a head gasket job and it turns out to be a comeback(sorry for the 4 letter word)Do you think that Mother Detroit Diesel will cover it or kick it back???? Yeah I agree that we all come up with easier ways of doing things, but it sure would be nice if the OEM's would help us out too. Instead of having to do things repeatedly to fix a concern that they already have known as a problem. how many of us has been on line with,(I use the term loosely)TECHLINE and had them send you around in circles only to find out that you knew what it needed to begin with??? I really believe that all of our oem's should listen to the FIELD about what needs to be done to fix the engineering problems a little closer.That's just my 2 cents, doesn't mean much but I'm tired of having srt's cut and you guy's getting screwed trying to make a living, which also includes any indy's out here. And now fellas I'm going upstairs and have shot of Crown and a Bud... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted December 1, 2007 Share Posted December 1, 2007 I'm sure I did, James... and I still feel bad for jumping on you like that..... I do hope that makes you feel a bit better.... I'm active on many venues with my main thrust being that consumers need to differentiate between the good guys and the hacks..... There is currently some yoyo on TDS that stamps his feet and frowns at people (with smileys, no less) that call our stores "stealerships" - but he doesn't appear to be prepared to act professionally - .... There's another guy that considers himself professional and his "torque wrench" is his trigger finger..... The things that I have seen in all my years has me on a hair trigger for many "suggestions". Getting real broad on the topic.... there are "good" shorcuts and there are "bad" shortcuts. Too many techs can't tell the difference any more. Like my Dodge 4 cylinder starter bolt... some of this crap starts to become "accepted industry practice" - it's wrong, but some techs accept it as a way of finding gain time.... (rough translation - "I'm a !@#!?$!"). The thought of leaving a bolt out (expressed in even an innocent fashion) will get me going.... Public perception of our trade is of paramount importance to me... how "Joe Blow" looks at me, at you and at every other tech out there.... We'd all be a lot better off if there weren't sluts among us... I just react to what I read.... I apologize for thinking the worst... I don't apologize for reacting. WE ALL NEED TO REACT when we see someone do something that isn't going to show our craft in it's best light. We can have instant gratification by leaving fasteners out (gain time) - or, we can have long term change by proving that we are, indeed, professionals.... There is no easy way to explain how I feel and think... I can foresee the possibility of great change in our stature - if we do it right.... and it wont be in my lifetine. But, doing my best Nostradamus impersonation, I can see where "mechanicians" (those that can deal with electromechanical devices) could be very important, highly regarded, well recompensed individuals. We're all good at brake jobs... but not everyone that is good at brake jobs is good at driveability or electrical... I've had a shitty week.... I'm rambling... but I hope you get the idea and realize that I hold no malice.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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