jaysonfordtech Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I was waiting for this, we got our first 6.4 with a tank full of gas. The guy sent one of his young employees out on friday to fill up the truck because he was going on a trip that weekend. It made it about a mile and died. The hotline advised pump, lines, and injectors. Oh and I suggested a whole lot of labor. I think with parts and labor it was around the 6k mark /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif! We got the ok on saturday to order the parts. The injectors were $350ish each, pump was around $900 and pile of throw away bolts and clamps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 And that's what you get for sending the $7.00/hr dude to get fuel. There's a gas station! Which pump? Ahh, fuck it, this one'll work! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Dont forget filters and allllll the wonderful time you get to spend flushing the tank and lines /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I better not chirp too much more, or I know what'll end up in my bay tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ford said the samething about the original powerstroke when it came out. But I have lost count of how many trucks I drained the tanks on, added lubricity additive and changed the fuel filter that are still on the road purring away. Total cost about $200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Jason, the one i had i just replaced the fuel filters, removed tank and got all gasoline out...filled with diesel....and mine ran beautiful...hasnt been back since..... might look into that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ford said the samething about the original powerstroke when it came out. But I have lost count of how many trucks I drained the tanks on, added lubricity additive and changed the fuel filter that are still on the road purring away. Total cost about $200. + 1 on that here as well we usually to get three or so a year. I always tell the people what Ford states needs to be replaced then tell them we will drain the tank/tanks, flush lines, new filters, and oil then see were we stand 99% are just fine and have no longterm ill effects. Be fair on the labor but not shy make it worth wile for yourself. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 I'll concur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted December 20, 2007 Author Share Posted December 20, 2007 That is what I have always done with 6.0 and 7.3 rigs also. This one is not my job, it went to the other team. I am lucky in that we have 5 diesel certified techs out of seven total in my shop now. I suggested that they call hotline, and the answer they got was to rr all fuel injection components and filters. The service advisor jumped on that and sold it. I guess that is why I am on my side of the shop and the advisors are on their side, they can't do my job, and I have a soul and can't do theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 If you call hotline...and they find out its customer pay...its like a parts guy at christmas..... THEY TELL YOU TO REPLACE EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted December 20, 2007 Share Posted December 20, 2007 I'll agree, with an asterisk- Most of the time the fuel system components live after a high octane cocktail, but I did have a low mileage 7.3 years ago that lost 3 injectors within minutes of a gasoline fuel up. The funny thing is that it wasn't the drivers fault, the semi driver put the fuel in the wrong hole in the ground, dumping several thousand gallons of gasoline into the underground diesel tank. It made the 6 o'clock news to try to find everyone who had bought diesel fuel at that station that day. Why was it such a big deal? Because some people run diesel fuel in kerosene heaters. Have you ever seen a 50/50 mix of gas and diesel in a kero heater? It makes the 11 o'clock news! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 So whats the proper way to address this? I got the call this afternoon about a guy who filled his truck with gas then proceeded to drive it til it literally died on the side of the road. Now I did price everything but I'm not sure of the damage yet until I get to actually see this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 A month ago or so, I had an FSE from IH working with me for an entire week on a 6.4 headache. We were chatting over lunch about the things that we've seen with 6.4s, and I told him that we had one that was filled with gasoline, and that we were basically considering giving the customer the option of draining and refilling... he said it was good that we did not take that route, because what will eventually happen is the HPFP will seize-up, which will then end up taking out the rear engine gear-train... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 A month ago or so, I had an FSE from IH working with me for an entire week on a 6.4 headache. We were chatting over lunch about the things that we've seen with 6.4s, and I told him that we had one that was filled with gasoline, and that we were basically considering giving the customer the option of draining and refilling... he said it was good that we did not take that route, because what will eventually happen is the HPFP will seize-up, which will then end up taking out the rear engine gear-train... honestly, all that i've read is people just draining it, flushing everything out, and then just shipping the customer on the way with the Ford additive. I've read A LOT of post's of people doing just that. Quite honestly, im not going to charge the old guy who didnt notice that the green handle (which 99% of the time is diesel) was gasoline at this particular gas station. Mistakes happen. They say the exact same thing about the 6.0L. Saying it will mess up all the injector's blah blah blah, i've seen a good amount with gasoline in them on accident, one has 50K on it since the drain+refill and still not injector problems. On edit, i was in a class with an FSE who failed the advanced drivebility class. 6months later i saw him sitting in my manager's office saying he's the new FSE in the area. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_ Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Quote: On edit, i was in a class with an FSE who failed the advanced drivability class. 6months later i saw him sitting in my manager's office saying he's the new FSE in the area. What do you guys think I need to fail in order to become a warranty inspector??? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Well, the FSE for international told me that he gets majority of the Ford 6.0 stuff back to inspect. He was an very awesome cool guy, told me some funny stuff about how tech's have returned stuff. He said he has 2 huge bin's full of rear cover's busted from HP fitting failures. Now to be a warranty nazi. I think they just need to teach you how to use warranty nazi dice. They role the dice, 5 out of the 6 spot's say "Decline" and the one say's "approve" That's mainly only for the diesel guys. But now I think they have given them new dice where all say "decline" on all sides of the dice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustedKnucklez Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I got a 6.0 with gas once. Instead of contacting Ford I just gave the customer the option of paying me to drain, drop, and clean his fuel tank and to flush the lines, new fuel filters, add diesel and cetane boost. I advised him that we would only be throwing the dice with this kind of solution and couldn't guarantee how it would run after. Also let him know that if it didn't improve it he would be responsible for the further diagnosis and repair. He declined of course. Whether or not the pump was green and had gas I tend to think that customers will say anything to avoid paying such a huge bill. And if that was really the case, pay for the repair, go back to the station, take a picture and sue the living crap out of the owners of the fuel station. Thats how we do it in Cali. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Well...Let's see if this comes on Jims approval..... If you fill the offending vehicle full of GASOLINE and it runs on diesel. #1: wrong fuel installed by customer or filled by filling station STILL NOT OUR FAULT !!!! #2: customer pissed at us because of wrong fuel installed and truck still under warranty NOT COVERED STILL NOT OUR FAULT !!!! #3 plays stupid.... STILL NOT OUR FAULT !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Taking it a step further, Larry... Let's just say that a 6.4 came in with gas in the tank... It ain't warrantable - no how. There is nothing that Ford could have done different to prevent this... However... let's say we did the cheap thing, patted this yokel on the back and said "see, we saved you a ton o' cash"... Now... let's say that many of these parts have anti-wear coatings... let's say that it takes a long time for something to "announce" that it's been a while since it's had the benefit of these anti-wear coatings... I'm neither metallurgist nor chemist... but I do know that bad things happen to nice people. Let's say that this "announcement" comes at the expense of very, very many other spendy parts - and now the guy is screaming warranty... and Ford wants to inspect the old parts.. We can roll the dice on a repair... but when push comes to shove, guess who is going to be the bad guy. Every time I ever set out to try and save someone a few bucks by using parts I should have changed... I took ten out of my pocket for every buck saved. If you guys want to gamble, don't let me stand in your way... Hell, maybe your doctor can save you a few bucks by not trying one or more pills or treatments... Bottom line... I love dealing with customers that simply want the damned thing fixed... fix it so it stays fixed. Callous as it may seem, I don't want to attract customers that pinch pennies every time they turn around. And before I am branded a thug and a thief... I have customers that are on fixed incomes. It is my job to help these people spend their money WISELY - not to doom them to a life of frustration and repeat or associated repairs. Cheap out on a job and have it backfire - you can bet the guy will be in the coffeeshop telling everyone what an ass YOU are.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 On edit, i was in a class with an FSE who failed the advanced drivebility class. 6months later i saw him sitting in my manager's office saying he's the new FSE in the area. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Well, I'm looking at his business card, and they actually call him the "field service manager"... if that means anything... but he really knew his stuff, and I would take his word for it... That being said, I don't think that trying to be the nice guy and saving someone from paying for something they obviously should be paying for is worth taking the risk of having to lose your shirt doing a warranty engine job on one of these pigs down the road... just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 It seems to me that we always hear how something really devastating will happen if we use the wrong fuel, oil, the wrong trans fluid, don't de-torque something in the proper sequence, don't mix the coolant at the proper mixture before we put it in the engine. I think we hear a lot of worst case scenarios. I think its at least worth it to drain, flush and fill with the proper fuel to see what happens. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Were not talking about a couple bucks, were talking about $6.000.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 James... it's called "gambling"... For much of it, I have no doubt that we have engineers playing "CYA".. but if they aren't about to "sign off" on a procedure, what makes me an instant expert? We aren't just gambling with a customers money... that roll of the dice has our reputations wrapped up in it as well. Detorquing something in the proper sequence? It doesn't take any more time than detorquing something "willy nilly".. BUT... detorquing something in the proper sequence is one of those things that separates "artisan" from "hack". FWIW.. we aren't talking about $6G of our customers money... we are talking about $20G of our shops money. Waiting to see what happens can have that effect... How lucky do you feel? (oooh, Clint Eastwood "go ahead, punk... make my day /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif ). Could I be described as "over-cautious"? Does a one legged duck swim in a circle? Hell, yes. But I have a reputation in my town - and I protect it. I look at last years tax return... and that makes me protect my rep even more... Even with all the signed waivers in the world, coffee shop talk can kill a store. If this motor was in an airplane instead of a truck... would you fly in it? Disclaimer... I would hope by this point in time most would know that the preceding is "my style". I bear no animosity to anyone - I simply open my mouth and words fall out. If I sound like dork - it's because I AM a dork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 No GYM not a Dork but somebody that has been down the road and back again with a few scratches along the way. If anything these younger pups should sit up on the chair and listen a little closer to the advise(wisdom) being given. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Jim, It is a gamble. I agree. It's up to the customer, service director and writer to decide how to place the bet. I see where your coming from and I see your point. I think you are one of the best in the buisness and I totally respect you, but I don't agree with you about this. Lets say the fuel is drained and replaced with good diesel fuel and it runs great. I try to explain that it still needs $6000.00 worth of work. He will probably decline the work and take his truck. Lets say 5 years later, his truck still runs great. In the customer's eyes, I'm the one that tried to sell him $6000 worth of work that he didn't need. Evey time I have been in this situation or seen this situation in the shop it is usally the service manager or director that makes the final decision. It is important to state that there may have been damage done even though the engine runs good right now. Oh yeah, if it was an airplane it would need everything replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 It works the same way, James... I can see where you are coming from too... If simply flushing the system does the trick (and who is to say it wont?) and the truck lives a healthy, happy life forever after... a guy is going to look like a prince. But there is an overwhelming factor.... we are factory trained techs and we are not blessed with the ability to fail... If we, as individuals, embark on this repair, someone - somewhere (and God help us if he has "barrister and solicitor" on his business card) is going to be sure that it is "understood" that we are performing repairs in a manner accepted by the manufacturer... A few "factoids"... we ARE acting as AGENTS of FMC... We ARE expected to follow ALL the manufacturers guidelines during the diagnostic and repair process... FMC is, for all intents and purposes, our customer - I'm sure they wouldn't mind having me, my boss, my store all named as co-respondants in any claim. Somewhere, in the paper trail, we have to leave a note that this engine has had the benefit of a load of gasoline. If you don't cover your own ass... there ain't nobody else out there going to do it for you. There are jobs that I don't feel comfortable with.. that's why God made the automotive aftermarket... BUT... in a case like gasoline in a 6.4, I feel it necessary to offer some modicum of protection to my "other" customer... FMC deserves some sort of loyalty - if for no other reason because it is the "right" thing to do. Replacing a 6.4 that was destroyed by some gasoline fuled failure isn't going to make your stores numbers look any better... The people that made my TV, toaster, scooter, video game (I have almost all the Guitar Hero games), saw(s) - you name it - don't warranty "Stupid" - Why should Ford? There's a book in the cubbyhole... The worlds most expensive unread book... How many people read it? Fuck... how many techs read it? Call me a !@#!?$! if you want... I are a old fart... I see todays litigious society... I have no desire to spend my remaining days paying off some judgement that I could have avoided by simply explaining to my customer that there is only one way I will perform a repair.... but another shop may do it "this way cheaper -but it is THEIR gamble". I make some damned good money... and I do it without ever having to say this MAY work.... I am condemned to a life of saying this WILL work. And I make sure it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I'm with James, give the customer the option. 9 outta 10 times its up to the service manager. Take the burden off yourself. Tell them, this is my rec. but if you want to try this then ok we'll try it. If it work's, great, hopefully we won a customer. If it didn't then let the SM worry bout it. We're just the trained messengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Ok for the most part I agree that on a older 6.0 or a 7.3 a good flush and fill would do the trick, but on a 6.4 with the fuel rail pressures that are produced I would rather know that all the fuel was removed from the system and have piece of mind that I had done my best possible repair to ensure the long life of the customers investment. Again it's just my gut feelings and my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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