Is Toyota Trying to Steal Some of Our Customers?

[mchan68]

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3659

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

I'd say yes, and being the fact that the big 3 are having growing pains with the new technology that have been incorporated into the new vehicles then I would say that they will try to take advantage of our customers exploiting that fact.

I just wonder how bloody expensive it will be, and don't forget the Lexus line how long before the truck gets rebadged. I think Ford and the others will be ok though being the fact that we already have these vehicles in place and have a loyal following.

[Bruce Amacker]

I think Ford and the others will be ok though being the fact that we already have these vehicles in place and have a loyal following.

Ooohh, I'm not sure I agree with that. The Big Three's market share has been declining steadily for years with Toyota gaining steadily for years. If you've looked at a new Toyota pickup you'll see they have FMC square in their sights and they're sporting heavy artillery. They build a nice truck aiming at the small business/construction market, and I'm sure Dearborn is doing more than just watching them. The rep of the 6.0 is much deeper than I thought. I figured the 6.4 would come out of the gate strong and help people forget about the 6.0, but that's not happening. I know more than a few loyal Ford customers for decades that have defected to other brands.

 

(PS I don't drive a Toyota pickup)

 

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Merry Christmas!

[Tony302600]

That is the ugliest thing ive seen. I thought the toyota full size truck was ugly....man this thing is...... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

 

I have a feeling this is whats gonna happen soon Toyota ----> /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hahaha.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ford.gif

 

Then at corporate /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif ( corporate beating up whoever thought of going to international. )

[Keith Browning]

I have to agree with Bruce because what he stated is absolutely true. At the moment we are watching Toyota rise to occasion with huge chunks of the market in many segments. There have been times when many manufacturers have had their day in the spot light and had great success. Ford had their day in the 1990's with the F-Series, Taurus and Explorer. Toyota is doing the same thing and they are looking to break into the truck market. It is no illusion that this is a fiercely contested market segment with the full sized trucks including diesel engine options. Personally, I think Toyota could do it but I don't think they will dominate. There is a LOT of brand loyalty but make no mistake, the Toyota brand name will attract customers.

 

Personally, I have always viewed most of the Japanese vehicle lines as a little chintzy and not as rugged as the American makes but that is not always true and I am willing to admit that. When it comes to the full sized light truck market however, I feel that as of right now, nobody makes a better truck than Ford. The monkey wrench in the gears? Yep, the six-point-O. If the (rumored) new Ford designed and built diesel engine is nothing less than an awesome powerplant then Ford will remain King. As of right now, things are heating up! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ford.gif

 

 

Just my /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

[Jim Warman]

Like Bruce and Kieth.... this isn't a good time for any manufacturer to be complacent... and there's no way we can depend on any "loyal following". Customers can be fickle and change brands in a heartbeat.

[Bruce Amacker]

That is the ugliest thing ive seen. I thought the toyota full size truck was ugly.

I agree it's a little hard to look at. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif

 

The ergonomics of the interior are really nice, and the MF runs the quarter mile in 14.3 seconds.

 

But, you ain't gonna buy one for $15K like you can an F-150.

 

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[Aaron]

The trainer I had the last time I went for Ford School told us that in the diamond mines up north, they use strictly super duty Ford's for longevity. They tried a Toyota pickup, and it didn't last 3 months.

 

I guess step one, however (so we were told) is to fill the EGR cooler with cement to prevent coking of the intakes on the Ford trucks.

[Tony302600]

Aaron thats what i heard. I heard that there was a huge amount of people that were pissed off about how noisey the 6.5L in the fullsize trucks was. But haven't heard anything knew about that.

 

My main concern is about how much maintanence these japaneese cars require. My mom has a honda and they require and assload of maintainence or "honda wont honor your warranty" I heard same for toyota.

[Bruce Amacker]

My main concern is about how much maintenance these Japanese cars require. My mom has a Honda and they require and assload of maintenance or "Honda wont honor your warranty" I heard same for Toyota.

 

 

This isn't exactly true, probably hearsay that started with an overzealous service writer. I ran an independent garage for 25 years and serviced many Jap cars from cradle to grave. Japanese cars do have 30K-60K-90K maintenance plans that are spelled out in detail, just like the Americans. The difference is that a majority of Jap owners follow these plans to a "tee", unlike their American owned counterparts. If you have these 30-60-90 plans done at a dealer they can be ridiculously expensive, but we used to do them for a fraction of what the dealer wanted and include everything the owner's manual specified. These Jap car owners would regularly bring their owner's manual to us and have us do the required list. I NEVER saw that happen with an American car owner. It is a different breed.

 

Toyota had a problem with their V6 engines getting sludged up in the late 90's. They only required 1 oil change per year to validate the warranty. I have never seen a Jap car's warranty claim denied due to lack of maintenance. On the contrary, I have seen stuff warrantied at Jap dealers that was denied at American dealers like brake pulsation, brake squeak, noisy belts, etc.

 

Do you guys warranty brake pulsation, brake squeak, and belt squeals at your dealers? I'm curious.

 

Happy Holidays!

[Jim Warman]

Bruce... some of those things that cloud the line between "repair" and "maintenance" are taken on a case by case scenario.... Other stuff is outlined in the warranty and policy manual.

 

Wheel alignment is covered for 12 months/20,000 kms - Fords stance being that if it didn't bother the customer for the first year, why would it bother him now? There have been times where I've machined or replaced rotors for free while the customer pays for the brake pads... I'm sure that this would be dealt with in the W&P manual so I hesitate to add any timeline to it....

 

As for the mines in the north.... Kingland Ford supplies the techs for one large mine that I know of. IIRC, this is a crew that hires on for this and doesn't not work in their store. I believe they are flown in for a three week tour and have one week off.

 

Perhaps I can entice one of them to sign up and describe life in the mines to us.

 

What I do know.... one reason the Ford is so attractive is the beam front axle... The trucks I have seen from there have the sway bars removed to allow the axle to articulate over rough ground easier....

[Keith Browning]

Do you guys warranty brake pulsation, brake squeak, and belt squeals at your dealers? I'm curious.

The quick answer is yes. The warranty and policy manual is actually pretty clear as to what is claimable, it is up to those applying the policies to ACTUALLY READ them and follow proper procedures.

 

Starting with brake pulsation, this is warrantied throughout the 3/36 period but it MUST be written up for brake vibration AND we are required to record the brake rotor thickness before and after machining especially if the rotors require replacing. This also holds true if the rotors are corroded and pitted beyond machinable limits. You wouldn't believe the condition of some rotors; severe and deep pits and ridges wit more than 7mm of lining thickness... but according to the policy, "surface rust" is not covered.

 

Brake squeal has largely been dealt with, and appropriately so, by the manufacturer. Ford has finally come up with lining "recipes" that reduced brake squealing while still meeting all of the other braking requirements. When I took the classroom brake course the instructor said that ford had 50-odd recipes for lining materials which tells me that there is a lot more to them than than most people give thought to. I am sure that there has been service messages stating the some brake squeal is considered "characteristic" and should be considered normal.

 

As for other noises, squeaks and rattles and so-forth, coverage is applicable and determined by the root cause of the noise and the coverage of that part, assembly or system and conditions causing the failure/noise.

 

 

 

Japanese manufacturers

Different thinking and different customers. My wife was the warranty administrator for the Nissan franchise my company used to have. As Bruce mentioned, servicing seems to be more accepted and taken seriously by owners of "foreign vehicles" - I have noticed this to also be true with European vehicles.

[jaysonfordtech]

Yes, not unless it is abnormal normal brake noise, and yes.

[Tony302600]

 

Perhaps I can entice one of them to sign up and describe life in the mines to us.

 

 

You guys already have the show "Ice Road Truckers." Now you want "Ice Road Mechanics" or "Loose Balljoints: a tale of mine mechanics" Sponsored by Labatts /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif

[Jim Warman]

That's "Molsons", Tony.... iam.ca... eh?

[Tony302600]

Looks like im stopping by the store to get some Labats, and Molsons. I'll let you know how my taste test goes. Never had a canadian beer.

 

P.S. ( sorry about miss-spelling your last name inthe chat)

[DamageINC]

Not to be the asshole who stands there hovering over the bleeding carcass of the enemy and point & laugh..

 

.. but as far as the Tundra goes: HA--HA! *points finger*

 

I'm so glad that the new Tundra is turning out to be a bit of a disaster with Toyota. Everyone I know of who has one is unhappy with it. The only thing that people like is the power, but apparently they're just piles of garbage.

 

Lots of complaints about terrible engine noises on cold startups, squeaks/rattles, various driveability concerns, mildage complaints, not to mention the rash of engines that needed replacement due to broken camshafts...

 

..it's like Toyota's own personal 6.0!

 

Dave

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Quote:

..it's like Toyota's own personal 6.0!

And Ford is different how?

[DwayneGorniak]

Not to be the asshole who stands there hovering over the bleeding carcass of the enemy and point & laugh..

 

.. but as far as the Tundra goes: HA--HA! *points finger*

 

 

..it's like Toyota's own personal 6.0!

 

Dave

 

And that Tundra is butt freakin ugly from the front fenders forward! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif Have you ever noticed the dinky little tailpipe on them? Looks like a lawn mower exhaust.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Funny you should bring up the exhaust pipe size...

Back about a million years ago when I was at the Honda dealer we had brought up the same subject with the Civic cvcc cars. We had a couple of guys running the road courses( scca ) with these and we asked them about putting on larger exhausts. There response was that the exhaust at that time( I don't know about now ) didn't have enough flow by the time it got to the end of the exhaust( to cool ) in order to keep it flowing they said it was more effiencent to keep the pipe smaller and thicker to keep the heat up and moving the exhaust out. Almost like any of us that has wrapped up headers to keep the heat inside the tubes. It just moves faster with more heat.

Maybe it's still the same I don't know??? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

[Bruce Amacker]

And Ford is different how?

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif !

[Jim Warman]

I dunno, guys... we can call them ugly or or concentrate on their weaknesses to the point where we forget that people ARE buying them.... and the few people that I know with them are happier with the trucks good points than they are pissed about the bad... And there's a lot of SuperDuty owners around with the same perception. Their trucks still piss them off - but not enough for a brand swap..... yet....

 

And this is important for us dealer techs to know... because a customers perception of his truck is also affected by our successes and failures.... And our futures as Ford "specialists" can hinge in the balance.

 

I'm always telling guys to "cultivate their retail"... but too many feel they have a captive audience... "I don't have to be good... I got them until the warranty runs out"..... A recipe for disaster, if I ever saw one.

 

Every time you see a Toyota on the street (or a Nissan or whatever brand) - that isn't some sucker that bought sh!t - that's one that "got away". Like fishing, it doesn't take too many to get away to spoil your day on the lake.

 

Full size Japanese trucks? They aren't a joke..... they're a wake-up call....

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Quote:

Full size Japanese trucks? They aren't a joke..... they're a wake-up call....

Jim I think you have the quote for the new year...We all need to wake up and be better than we ever have because the Toyota,Honda,xyz imports are coming and aren't going to stop...
that's why we are all here to help each other be better at what we do, and more proficiently at it. The better we get the quicker turn around time the truck is down and the more return sales the front office has. And the longer we all have jobs.

[jaysonfordtech]

I was around for the 1997 f150's Piston slapping, head gasket puking, spark plug spitting growing pains. I would be willing to bet that within 3 years they will have a product that will beat the pants off of the f150 we build today. It will improve and we must also, or we will lose that shrinking segment to them also.

[DwayneGorniak]

Yupp! I didn't say they were crap, I just said they were ugly. But then again, beauty is within the eye of the beholder.