Keith Browning Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 After sitting in the service manager's office for a month our IDS was finally removed from the boxes and placed in the roll cart that finally arrived. The roll cart/cabinet is nice. It's shiny and red and all of the "stuff" fits inside it. It will not fit in between our service lifts. No instructions on setup other than a few random pieces of paper. Which disk to use first? We just began inserting them and loading whatever was on them. No big deal. I don't know if there is/was a choice in PCs or notebooks but we have a nice new Panasonic Tough Book. The keyboard is very small. There are men in our shop with large fingers that will likely press several buttons at once. I didn't know that any computer company still made a 10" computer screen. What a joke. I am mostly disappointed with the size of the display. I have good eyes. This display is too small for a primary top of the line proprietary diagnostic system. We are already concerned with securing the system to begin with. Our first thought was to call DELL and order a real computer and lock it in the case and screw down a viewable monitor to the top. I am still praying the Tool Fairy will bring me my own PDS. My dealer will most likely never buy any. I usually try to avoid making negative posts but I wanted to share my first impression of the IDS. Perhaps it's performance will sway me as I begin to use it but for the most part it is a cumbersome and overpriced replacement for the WDS. ... I will share my impressions again in a few weeks when I have given it an honest shakedown and fair chance. All of us at my dealer that have now seen it are a little disappointed. Anybody else have an opinion? Good or bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Why would you need a keyboard? We flipped our screen around so the keyboard is covered. The screen is 100% easier to read that the WDS in bright sun light. The only down side I have right now is the battery life.It only lasts for 3 PCM reflashes. Panasonic only wants you to recharge the battery when it's dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 Anybody else have an opinion? Good or bad? [/QB] I've had a VCM for a couple of years now and have graduated from NGS+ to PDS and finally to IDS. I have spent about 6+ hours trying to get the VCM to communicate with my laptop to no avail. It's some kind of software issue as my VCM/cable kit works fine with my buddy's IDS. I've been drooling over getting this up and running to see it in action. I'll let you know when it works.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Bruce, Did you actually buy the IDS set-up? The software had the program/device driver you need for it to work. It is similar to Microsoft Active Sync. Anyway, we thought ours was not working because it was not lighting up. For your PC to recognize the VCM it needs to power up. Plug the DLC cable into a vehicle. We felt like idiots. It started lighting up, the computer recognized the new hardware and it all started working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Bruce, Did you actually buy the IDS set-up? Oh, yes, I have to buy everything for Fords. I get some free stuff from smaller companies, but not major players. The software had the program/device driver you need for it to work. Yes, I know, I loaded the latest version, which is 2006.3. I just got it last week but have had no luck getting it to work. It is similar to Microsoft Active Sync. Anyway, we thought ours was not working because it was not lighting up. For your PC to recognize the VCM it needs to power up. Plug the DLC cable into a vehicle. We felt like idiots. It started lighting up, the computer recognized the new hardware and it all started working. Yes, the entire time the VCM was linked to a vehicle and the lights were flashing, sometimes 5 greens, sometimes a sequence of red, yellow, and orange. The VCM shows up in device manager as a USB adapter but the IDS software will not recognize it. I had all of my firewalls, NAV, etc. turned off, and even had my PC repair guy try to get it to work (hence the 6 hours I mentioned in the first post). I have a call into IDS support (who actually answers the phone at 877-722-8336!) This was at 4:30 Friday and it was at the end of the day, and the only guy there was perhaps a mid-level guy, and did not know what to tell me. I did not have a Ford handy to hook to anyway. I'm teaching Monday but they're open until 6:30PM EST so I hope to talk to a guy live then with the PC/VCM all booted up and trying. I have a case file open. I did get it to connect for a few seconds one time, and it was trying to download new software into the VCM, but after it tried for about 20 minutes, I pulled the plug. It should only take about a minute to update the VCM code. Anxiously waiting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 Anxiously waiting.... I'll bet you are! I hate getting new toys that don't work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 I've had that happen on mine.. I loaded IDS on my laptop w/o service pack 2(so I expected a couple of issues).. Anyhow, in my case, I had to reboot the laptop with the vcm connected to the car in order for it to work.. You may have tried it already, but if not it might be worth a try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 15, 2006 Author Share Posted April 15, 2006 Just to get this straight, are you using the Ford supplied Panasonic Tough Book or your own PC/Notebook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 15, 2006 Share Posted April 15, 2006 Just to get this straight, are you using the Ford supplied Panasonic Tough Book or your own PC/Notebook? I'm not sure if you're asking me or HGM, but I'm using my own laptop- a new Compaq/HP NC6230 I had built with 2 HD totalling 160GB, 2 GB Ram, XP Pro, and a 2.13 processor. I chose that model because it has a serial port, and those are hard to come by these days. My last laptop had 80GB and I was forever moving stuff to an external drive because it was full. If it had only 10gb open on the HD, it would do weird things like not open programs. I wish PC's would tell you when they are too full to run right, but they don't. I'd think that 10gb was enough breathing room, but there I go thinking agin. I need to train myself not to do that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 16, 2006 Share Posted April 16, 2006 Just in case your asking me, mine is a Dell Latitude D6000.. XP Pro w/svc pack 1.. Unfortunatly svc pack 2 isnt an option for me right now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 16, 2006 Author Share Posted April 16, 2006 I was asking Bruce but knowing what you are using may prove helpful. I was under the impression that Ford was not going to offer support on any system but the one they sell though they state it should work on most PC's with Window's XP Pro. I do hope Bruce gets his working. Some of us in the shop are considering upgrading our own PC's to XP Pro and just use our own computers. This reminds me of my other problem... MD Truck. I should try loading it onto the IDS computer and see if it works. I was told that H6 was supposed to be installable on any PC as a stand alone program. Not true. I tried on my new Dell and the installation halted stating it was only to be installed on a WDS machine! So what are we supposed to do when our WDS coughs it's last TESTMAN error and fails to boot or something? Sublet our LCF's and Medium Duty F Series to an International dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I have heard (a monthe or so ago) MD will be compatible, not sure if the switch has been flipped yet, but it's comming.. Keith, Ford only recomends the Tough Book and a specific Dell(dont remember the number).. The reason is that each laptop is a bit unique and, you never know. These are the models they have proven to work, so they are a safer bet than others. Now, for my take on it..... I know people that have been running IDS on Toshibas and HP's(dont know those models either).. It is possible.. As a tech, I recomend buying the PDS kit..Its an awsome NGS replacement.. With this, you can also use your personal laptop if it meets specs as long as you also buy the extra cable.. This way you would have the portable scan tool for most testing and the laptop for more detail, service pubs, oasis, PTS, solitare, etc.... I realize $2500 is allot to spend, but most of us already have laptops and an update would be relitively cheap and you would know you have the tools available, no one else would be using(tearing it up) it when you need it.. I believe it would pay for itself pretty quickly... Now, have any of you guys had glitches with PDS? I (and a couple others) have had the PDS loose the PDS load magicly, overnight.. It needs to be reloaded from scratch to fix it.. Not a big deal, but annoying.. Could it be that I dont use it enough? It still shouldnt happen, but I can deal with growing pains... Just curious if anyone else has experienced it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 This reminds me of my other problem... MD Truck. So what are we supposed to do when our WDS coughs it's last TESTMAN error and fails to boot or something? Sublet our LCF's and Medium Duty F Series to an International dealer? For $425 list/$325 net you can buy MD from SPX/OTC, if your dealership will part with that kind of change... P.S. My time spent trying to get IDS working is up to 12 hours total so far with tech support, and my IDS still won't recognize the VCM. I'm too PO'd right now to type the story out but will let you know when it is up and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 3, 2006 Author Share Posted May 3, 2006 Hey Bruce, what's the good word? Any luck yet with your set up problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR Mike Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 We've got IDS running in the shop now on 3 of my techs laptop's as well as my HP dv1000. No issues so far, except for the one ancient Compaq that is running almost as slow as WDS. We do have to share the VCM and cable amongst everyone, but not having to deal with the "Please Wait" of the WDS alone is worth it! I like IDS so far - very fast (at least on my PC) and does everything I've needed so far. We will be getting our VCM later this week, so that's one more thing to cross my fingers and hope works right! Regarding WDS support - I have a contract with ERS Solutions for my NGS and they have told me that they are staged to take over the WDS as soon as Ford lets it go. ERS Solutions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Good idea! Most of the guys in my shop have a PC or a laptop already. I have been wanting my own PDS but can't part with the $2300 for it. I like the portability of the PDS over the PC and to be honest, my dealer hasn't even purchased one yet! Besides, the kit advertised on the RTTP site has been on backorder forever and I also heard a rumor that Ford is not happy with the PDS and is actually considering dropping it! Just a rumor guys, so don't get in an uproar! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Yea, heard that rumor.... Ford recently got pretty upset about it too.... The PDS is a replacement for the NGS-period..... Its not scheduled to go away... The rumor apparently comes from the idea that the PDS was neverintended to be a dealer tool(supplied by the dealer).. They looked at the NGS history and found that a large amount of techs(individualy) purchased the NGS, so the idea was that the PDS would be a tech's tool(like the NGS) and the IDS would be the dealers responsibility(like the WDS).. This has lead allot of people to assume that since the dealer isnt required to buy a PDS that is not being supported and will be going away soon.. Simply a rumor from missinformation.. The PDS is a good tool, great NGS replacement, and will likely be arround for quite a while.. It currently has some glitches, but does what it does really well... The $2400 price tag sounds like allot, but in the NGS ballpark.. If you use the tool enough and have tried both, you'll toss the NGS.. Just a little info I have recieved, thought it might be usefull to you guys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 4, 2006 Author Share Posted May 4, 2006 Thanx for setting the record straight and quickly too! I do see one problem with the PDS and it revolves around the PDA itself. You would have to be dead not to notice how rapidly the computer technology changes these days. We still have PDA's but now we have Blackberry and as recent as this weeks news, tablet-style computers are making big progress now. The Samsung Q1 is the latest model to be reviewed identifying some significant issues but give it a year or two... My point is that Ford may struggle with keeping up on the hand held computer end of this tool as PDA's will be drastically different in the coming years. Your PDA may not even exist! But don't think this is a bad thing because improved capabilities in the hand held unit will equate to a much better tool. I just hope we can keep up! I will likely be ordering my PDS later this year and I hope it's not outdated by the time I get my hands on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR Mike Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Keith has a great point. According to Rotunda the reason the PDA kits are on BO is because the new generation of pocket PC's operate on a different platform than what the PDA software was designed for. Ford released a recent message identifing the ONLY current pocket PC able to run PDA software - Let me quote the May 02 release: WINDOWS MOBILE 5.0 OPERATING SYSTEM The HP iPAQ hx2490 Pocket PC uses the Windows Mobile 5.0 operating system. It is the only device approved for use with Windows Mobile 5.0 and PDS. Do not install the Windows Mobile 5.0 operating system on any Pocket PC currently running Windows Mobile 2003. One of my guys is trying to get on the list for a PDS system, they 'unofficially' indicated that they are 'highly likely' to start production of the kits again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 No doubt.... When a new computer(of any type comes out) it makes you wonder if the one you have is now junk.... The basic theory behing the PDS and IDS is that it will be capable of morphing into new systems.. The only change will be the PC(pocket or whatever).. The main benefit, though a bit of a pain in the wallet(or ass) for whoever owns one, is that unlike the WDS you wont need a new $10k machine, just a new $500-$2000 machine(?).... So its upgradeable, good thing, I think.. I'm having problems with the PDS, but I contribute them to growing pains, overall its a great tool and I'm glad to see it here, even with some frustration..I have believe that it will get better.. As for the capability, there are some options, but you need to really investigate them before buying because things change real quick.. BTW, I understand a hard case may be coming soon.. Really good idea if you ask me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 You guys must all be young'uns... I'm having a hell of a time with the PDS... Some yahoo will use whatever is handy to poke at the touch screen cover - too many times this is a ball point pen with no cover on the tip... That ink is near impossible to get off, sometimes. They're every bit as heard to read in any amount of light.... And my friggin' arms are way too short for them dinky little letters... We finally got part of our IDS shipment.... One VCM and one cable (VCM to DLC). The other VCM is on backorder as is the VMM and all it's goodies. Toughbooks will be here next week - Looks like the old shop foreman quit just in time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Hey Bruce, what's the good word? Any luck yet with your set up problems? YES! Finally got it up and running. I count about 15.5 hours between tech support, going over to my local Ford training facility to try my VCM on their IDS, swapping parts with my buddy's IDS to make sure it's not a cable or hardware issue. The amount of time wasted updating software is unreal, but it works and now I'm happy! PS: I was really smoking mad after spending several hours with tech support- first the low level guy, then the mid level guy, and when he couldn't figure out my problem, he went to the upper level guy. The upper level guy comes back and says- guess what- because I am not a Ford employee, they will provide zero tech support over the phone! They referred me to the Motorcraft website for DIY tech support- not even e-mail. I was so mad I was bright red. The upper level guy sent out an email to all tech support people and basically shut off the aftermarket guys from tech support on the IDS/VCM communication problems. I think there is a law against this and I may look into it....... UGH! Now to go on and enjoy my IDS..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 29, 2006 Share Posted August 29, 2006 I bought another NC6230 off Ebay that's a twin to my main laptop (I like to have a live spare with software loaded in case of a crash) and loaded IDS. It connected to the PCM without a hitch. Go Figger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 29, 2006 Author Share Posted August 29, 2006 Don't-cha hate that? With all the problems you had the first go around perhaps you were rewarded with all you learned from that experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Last week, something happened to one of our IDSs.. no idea what, it just stopped communicating with the VCM (our laptops are the Toughbooks)... IIRC, it was LED 4 that would prove out and "go to sleep"... Did the usual swapping routine and finally decided to reload IDS software - works fine... Yesterday, the other IDS didn't update right.... goofy crap on the screen.... We're hoping that a software reload will cure it... This is starting to make the WDS look quicker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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