Shame on the last dealer that touched this truck

[Tony302600]

I received a ticket on a 04 350 6.0L that says "customer states other Ford dealer says truck needs head gaskets"

 

I give the ol here we go. i drove the truck 30min with window open and vent on full blast. With no degas bottle overflow residue and the pressure NEVER going above 15psi Pulling into the dealership i get a faint, very faint smell into the cab. ( the usualy skunk /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif smell ). Checked EOT and ECT 34 degrees difference, just had oil+ egr cooler done a month ago. Contacted hotline for this unusual situation and they tell me that "the oil cooler is loosing efficiency because of contaminents on the coolant....please flush out twice with simplegreen before repair, and after repair. Replace oil cooler and EGR cooler."

 

*Sidenote* The truck has been at the "other Ford dealer" 5 times for this concern.

 

I start the repair. I notice the coolant hose from front cover to heater core is routed around the oil filler neck, causing it to kink. 5 missing bolts. Go to unplug the connector for #7 injector and its being held on with silicone because its broken on the injector side. I stop, tell me manager, he says customer has to pay for the repair then take it to "the other Ford dealer" to get reimbursed, or he can leave it alone and drive it to the other dealer.

 

Just curious on how often you guys see stuff like this. We get a lot of trucks from customers that bounce from dealer to dealer. There are way too many Ford dealers in chicagoland and customers have a lot to choose from.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Seen some but not many, I have seen them because of a few (mind you a few not all dealers to those who will slam me for this) techs either are in to big a hurry and just slap it back together or are pissed because maybe they have had to much warranty work lately and don't want to take their time and reassemble the correct way. The question I have is why did the customer go back to the same dealer 5 times for the same problem? The other question I have is your in Chicago and the end of Dec. and your driving it with the windows down for a half hour????( YOU ARE A BEAR )

We had a tech that was working on a warranty torqueshift and had to drop the trans 6 times before the customer got so far up the D/P's ass that we ate a reman just to make him go away.

[Tony302600]

Well im assuming this wasnt a seasoned 6.0 guy because i know where pretty much every single bolt and nut go. I have my little containter... EVERY bolt goes in.. and EVERY bolt comes out.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Well trained but not on the Torqueshift...Shorthanded!!!

[DamageINC]

Holy hell!!! What dealer was this anyway?

 

Dave

[snw blue by you]

Maybe I'm wrong but it's probably the same kind of dealer that has techs that can do STC fittings in 2 hours.

 

I see this kind of work ALOT, mostly on outta' state trucks passin through but some locals as well.

 

I understand no one is perfect and shit happens but an obvious fuck up is just that, and is inexcusable.

 

Ya look at history and shake your head. I've got one right now from Wisconsin, was at a local dealer back home last week for exactly the same concern, "crank, no start".

 

So called tech replaced a CMP. Hello, this is a 6.0L not a 7.3L

It loses RPM signal and has CKP DTCs.

 

Freakin' doofus!

 

Yes, I am high on diesel, go figure.

[Tony302600]

so getting more into this truck, i take theintake off (EGR cooler still in truck) and the EGR cooler to intake gasket (metal) was hanging off the side and all mangled up.

 

The service writer called the customer ( hes convinced that they did it ) customer called the "other Ford dealer" they called us biching saying we probably did it, then we told him the customer said they were the only one to ever touch his truck....they apologized and sent an injector down.

 

heres a story.....One of our techs ( back in the day ) had his truck serviced "at the other dealer" they cracked and pushed in one of his expensive subwoofers in his SUV. They said they werent back in the trunk it was like that before...he showed them the bits the tech left in his trunk. They said send us the bill.

[Mekanik]

Hey Tony, I'm dying to know which dealer did this. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif

[Jim Warman]

Tony.. I think this may, sadly, be something we will "have to get used to"....

 

We have a high incidence of "transient" labour... crews come in and crews go... consultants in the patch.... new people to town...

 

And so many are unknowingly packing "baggage' from their previous shops....

 

Most prevalent (and we used to see it too often on the old QuadraJet carbs) is a tech failing to use a back-up wrench when necessary... Lower fan stator bolts, f'rinstance... We sell a LOT of fan stators - and you have a hell of a time convincing someone it wasn't you that broke the old one....

 

We see too much stuff put together with impact wrenches... leaving difficult to access bolts with damaged heads... or holes with just enough threads left in them to embarrass us...

 

Silicon, crazy glue, mechanics and tape.... all so some speeding dork doesn't have to admit he screwed up....

[mchan68]

Tony.. I think this may, sadly, be something we will "have to get used to"....

 

Silicon, crazy glue, mechanics and tape.... all so some speeding dork doesn't have to admit he screwed up....

I have had a "few" of those trucks pass through my hands lately. What tends to piss me off are the ones that brag that, ".....well I can do that job in 2 hours..." as in trying to convey the underlying message that I'm better than you. For me, I always thought that most of us are here to HELP each other, not bash each other. And comments like that to be seen and heard by the wrong people are how warranty times get dropped (remember 8592A for 1.0?).

I'm not ashamed to admit that some jobs might take me longer to carry out than probably most of the members on this site. BUT, take things into consideration like:

 

1. I am the ONLY diesel tech in my shop, so I get NO HELP from anyone. ALL jobs I have to pretty much figure out on my own.

 

2. I see relatively few diesels pass through my hands compared to probably everyone on this site, therefore I get far less wrench time, and less experience than most of you.

 

3. When I carry out a repair, ALL fasteners get returned to their original locations and orientations (CAC hose clamps, and exhaust clamps for example). My biggest pet peeve are the stripped and rounded off bolts to the power steering recervoirs on 6.0L E-series for example.

 

With all that said, these are details that add time to the repair process despite what Ford SLTS pays poorly, I still take pride in carrying a repair making it look as though nothing was ever touched, except for the new part replaced. There was one '05 truck that passed through my hands where the previous tech at a dealer I won't mention, left a gap about 1/8th of an inch wide between the turbo exhaust inlet and the y-pipe. I ended up having to reposition the y-pipe in order the get it to seat properly onto turbo. Then there's always the one of the three turbo bolts that nobody likes to access, which seems to always be MIA (at least the ones that pass through my hands). Then there's the E-series trucks with the doghouse opening and the underside heat insulation that gets mangled to ratshit from other guys getting too aggresive with the turbo removal process. I could go on and on, but yes unfortunately there are a lot of "meat cutters" out there. Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents.

[snw blue by you]

[quote name=mchan68

What tends to piss me off are the ones that brag that' date=' ".....well I can do that job in 2 hours..." as in trying to convey the underlying message that I'm better than you. For me, I always thought that most of us are here to HELP each other, not bash each other. And comments like that to be seen and heard by the wrong people are how warranty times get dropped (remember 8592A for 1.0?).

 

I still take pride in carrying a repair making it look as though nothing was ever touched, except for the new part replaced. [/quote]

 

Excellent comments!

 

It is a work ethic I have tried to follow without exception in my career as a Ford dealership technician, and one that was taught to me by one of our members (FordMastertech) so many years ago.

 

I didn't realize it at the time but his expectations of me made me the tech I am today. Back then (14 years ago) I thought he was a pompus ass that got off on riding me (Sorry Tim) but then I guess there was a reason he was part of the class of '99 Senior Masters.

 

Stupid me.

 

I don't turn a ton of hours but I am efficient and my employer does not lose money on me.

 

Proper diag, a complete and properly executed job has paid my bills, allowed me to purchase a home, and have things that I want, like my '03 Cobra ragtop and '02 Indian Chief amongst other things, whilst allowing me to sleep soundly at night.

[Tony302600]

To be quite honest....I used to not care, i just wanted to put band-aids on trucks before... THen i read one of Jims Posts about responsibilities and pride being a tech. I did a 180. I dont look at how much something pays ( sometimes ) i take that extra bracket off to access a bolt, and put it back...I stopped running away from " hard " jobs and take what is given to me.

 

My shop is full of.... "i need more diag..." service writer says..."u've only spent 30min on it" and then the tech gets pissed off and so on. I've taken the approach of....i'll spend extra time to find out what it is...then we'll talk about diag time.

 

Today i went into work and finished the truck....replaced the injector....then when trying to install the connector, a very very small peice of the plastic injector was stuck in the bottom of the FICM side. So, ( THANK GOD ) i had a spare E-series harness, i depinned the connector and put my spare one on. I did not have a matching bolt for the right head fuel line bracket so i didnt put one in. I wish i had a picture of the EGR cooler metal gasket, it was mangled beyond belief.

 

The dealer is Greenway Ford. The manager of that dealer called ours and said the tech fessed up and told him he broke the injector.

 

BTW. It had the 05s43 FICM HARNESS RECALL needed. Greenway said they did it.... I can't find one peice of that recall on the FICM harness. It needed all that extra convolute and backing for the connector. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

[mchan68]

To be quite honest....I used to not care, i

BTW. It had the 05s43 FICM HARNESS RECALL needed. Greenway said they did it.... I can't find one peice of that recall on the FICM harness. It needed all that extra convolute and backing for the connector. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

 

Kind of reminds me of the time my SM's "buddy's" '05 E-350 got wrote up for a "cranks no-start" low ICP concern. Remember my thread a while back about the hard time I was having, air leak testing? Well, when I checked OASIS, it showed the most recent repair with the 4C3Z-9B246-A STC bracket kit charged out TWICE on the same RO as the most recent repair. When I pulled the high pressure pump cover off, neither the update bracket was there, nor did the STC fitting look like it was replaced less than 10,000 kms. ago. To make matters worse, this truck was 3,000 kms. over the limit for the DIT warranty (163 and change kms.) I got paid internally for the actual time I spent on the truck, but that's besides the point. Apparently that dealer is in deep poo-poo as a result of my findings.

[Jim Warman]

Mike... this is where it takes a gnarly turn....

 

When you opened up the HPOP and compared what you saw to the OASIS history... and seeing what Tony has written... what is your gut reaction? You too, Tony... How do you guys feel when you see people milking the system like this?

 

You guys try to be the very best you can ever be.... but you will be judged as if you were the guys that say they did something they didn't.... And the really disgusting part.... any one of us could be working beside the guy that does this kind of shit...

 

I'm pissed off because we aren't treating this the way we should.... Installed a new STC with girdle... and it ain't there? That's f@cking fraud... That's a criminal code offence.

 

Let's chew on that for a bit...

[Keith Browning]

Perhaps it is that something so obvious to most of us is just covered up by others that makes us angry.

• "I didn't see THAT."
• "That is not MY job!"
• "I wasn't told to do that."
• "Ahhhh fuck it! Nobody will notice."
• "Tell it to the Union - I have a contract."

[Jim Warman]

There's an "addendum" to that, Kieth... how many guys find something someone else has screwed up and think "OMG, they're gonna think I did that!!! I gotta hide it better!".

 

Plastic parts... everyones favourite... If we break it, we replace it - no questions asked. We don't pass the cost along to our techs but we do remember it happened and we pray that something was learned...

 

If we try to hide something, it can come back to bite us - destroying our integrity in the process.

 

I've broken stuff (I think we all have) and I stand up and say "I broke this".... And that allows me to say "Some @sshole broke this and tried to hide it" without fear of getting any blame.

 

Back in grade school, they taught us the "golden rule"... "Do unto others.....".

 

Sometimes the truth isn't pleasant.... but it's still the truth.

[Joey Kaylor]

i have been spending the last year hiring, and then firing, techs with a piss poor repair attitude. they will break something, not tell me, and think that it wont be noticed. they dont give a shit, cause its not them that is looking bad in the customers eyes, its me. it really pisses me off when i have one use the whole "its just a piece of shit car, no one cares" attitude.

 

i have one four year tech, and one that started four months ago with me. the one that started four months ago has hellacious potential, if he will mature enough to realize it. being 20, full of piss and vinegar, and cocky as hell is a bad combination for a mechanic, but i was like that six years ago. i just hope that he will listen to some advice and buckle down.

 

the four year tech is doing very good, he is meticulous on jobs. i am getting ready to start to break him on diesel work, but we are taking it slow on him for now, i dont want to scare him /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

he kinda freaks out when i talk about yanking the cabs for heads and stuff, since most of the trucks we service are dumps or bucket units.

 

i have seen alot of shady work from dealers come through here, but if you think it is bad from a place that has all the factory repair info and tooling, you should see the hacked shit that comes in from other indies!

 

its not the place, but the techs. unfortunately there are several things that are not taught or emphasized anymore: work ethic, pride, respect, or reliability. most people would rather find the easy way out, and blame their faults on others.

[Tony302600]

A lot of times im stuck with a huge decision. I'm starting to figure out that our dealer has a good amount of techs that break something and try to mask it. This is why when i went up to the service manager and told him...Hey this $20 plastic harness retainer (the one that goes along the firewall) broke because its a 90K truck and was very brittle getting the pushpins out. I got yelled at asking "when will stuff stop being broken, it all adds up" he told me. I yelled back in defense ( i shouldnt have ) saying im sorry its $20 i'll pay for it ( in a very sarcastic cocky manner ). My manager is the type you dont know when hes joking, or when he is serious.

 

that $20 part that accidentally broke is peanuts to the 15hours this guy just paid to get his truck fixed. 15hours at $100 an hour hmmmmmm.

 

I will admit i have run out to the parking lot a few times to put a bolt on that i forgot to put on because i was pulled off 2-3times to do something else. there have been times that i totally forgot about 2 bolts until the next day.

 

I think things are going to get worse. Especially with the 6.4. As soon as you see techs complain about labor times you start to see things broken, siliconed, or cross threaded.

 

Again i want to thank Jim and this website for changing my whole attitude and work ethic.

 

I think some people dont diagnose trucks anymore they look at what TSB pay, then "perform" the labor time that pays the most even if the truck doesnt have Anyone of the symptoms.

 

I've broken an injector connector before taking the intake off to do a oil/egr cooler, but i fixed it. I didnt mask it.

 

My whole deal was that the bolts missing were in plain site. Oh well...

 

Our owner saw a special on tv about reporters bugging cars, putting cameras all over them, asking for repairs, and seeing if techs actually do the work, or say they did. They busted A LOT of indie shops. Our manager got a Memo stating "If any tech gets caught not doing a repair he said he did, i want him fired on the spot" i bet if FoMoCo hears about stuff like this, they will send out bugged cars masked as normal people to see what the hell is going on.

[Jim Warman]

Tony.. I am proud that I helped make a difference in your life... But I can't take the credit.... that belongs to you and you alone... We are all capable of wonderful things... all we need to do is apply ourselves.

 

I carry your thinking a step further... I forever "replaying" things in my mind. I used to recheck bolt torques out in the parking lot... I've even gone back to the store in the middle of the night because I can't remember locking the door (strange - because my routine is to lock the door, remove my key and shake the door... without fail).

 

Rules of thumb... never "start" a bolt if you aren't going to "finish" it. For wheel nuts, I will place my torque wrench and the socket near one of the wheels or on top of a hubcap as a visual cue... (Why on earth is that there? Oh, I remember).

 

Not everyone shares our vision... and we are going to have to deal with it one way or another... The shoddy guys wear coveralls (much like ours), have tool boxes (much like ours) and get paid in the same vein as we do.... Unfortunately, the good guys get painted with the same brush as the bad guys all too often. Even having a Journeymans licence is no assurance that workmanship will be acceptable...

 

It's a social problem... perhaps, someday, consumers will rebel.... only to realize that shoddy attitudes are something that have permeated every nook and cranny of the business world and that they, themselves, may be carriers of the "disease".

 

Through it all, we will still be allowed our pride.. and what rewards having that pride may bring.

 

Disclaimer.... in the Fire Service, Las Vegas Fire Chief Allan Brunicinni came up with a model called "fail forward". The basic premise is that sh!t happens. The idea is that we learn from our failures and refuse to repeat them.... no fault - no blame.... unless we demonstrate an inability to learn from our failures....

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

The way I look at these types of things may be a little different but the same.

 

I had once upon a time, bout a million years ago a owner of the Bike shop I was working at(Ruttmans Yamaha)come to me when I had first started at the dealer. He gave me this little bit of advise and I use it everyday. As quoted(Jim Ruttman)"Larry you are young and don't know everything you will need in life, that will come in time. You will however not make mistakes, you will infact Fuck up. Learn from the times that you do and try not to Fuck up the same way twice" And it is something that I tell all the young guy's coming in and hopefully they will instill this on others as they learn from their Fuck ups!!!

[jbarnett31]

yep i see this alot, like the guy before i can pretty well look at a bolt in a 6.0 and tell u where it came from and i do run across shotty work alot and it is left to me to check for someone elses mistake before i let it go. Its something i am slowly getting used to.

[v8ranger]

I don't post much (as you can tell) but read a lot. But this subject is one that really gets under my skin. As with Jim I am guilty of breaking shit, but I always admit to it, for the same reason when I find something broken my SM knows it wasn't me. I'm sure we've all worked with people that think that they're only screwing the Blue Oval. I worked with a guy that pulled down huge hours,whenever there was a comeback ,never his fault. After being watched he would only replace the front 3 plugs on a Taurus or Continental during a tune up, or lower half on 7.5l rear main seal. After being confronted, he was given a choice quit or get fired. Unfortunately for you Jim last I heard he was working in your neck of the woods.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Whooooo.... slacker in Slave lake be very afraid......

 

Thanks v8ranger /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif

[Keith Browning]

Fortunately I work with a manager who understands that things happen and believes in doing the right thing. He may not always be happy about it but all we need to do is tell him about it and we take care of it. This also prevents him and the writer from being blindsided by a pissed off customer.

[CLR95]

Keith at least you have a manager that comfronts the problem right away rather than turnin his eye away from it. And thats not really with the broken stuff its with the half ass work and he wonders why we don't have as much business as we could ha. Speakin of i am in the middle of puttin a 7.3 back together after pullin it to change the oil pan and am takin a beatin time wise but i wanna make sure its done right the first time and this is only the second one i have pulled so maybe next time it'll be faster /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif.