Dart505 Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 I wanted some feed back on what incentive percentages & $$.I was assigned to revamp our techs monthly incentaves & wanted to see what other dealers are doing.Right now we have a bunch of available time so it will get run on shop time to keep their % up. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/fouet3.gifSome of the techs only but it is bad enough to try something else.Shame to have to babysit grown men but they are screwing the company the way I see it.We average 200 hours of work per month & also they average about 140 actual worked so we are trying to improve both.This is a International truck dealer but should be the same thought. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Step by step brake down would be appriciated being I am shallow minded. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Our guys get a $0.50 raise for each Ford specialty earned.... We have two pay periods per month... If the flat raters book 100 hours or more per period, they get an extra two bucks for each and every hour... The straight time guys are all apprentices.... they need to get good before they get fast... My faith in human nature is on shakey ground... production incentives scare me.... Every now and then, I'll come across a new part in a box stuck under a bench somewhere /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif If we charged a customer or Ford for a part they didn't get... I can't describe how that makes me feel /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/fouet3.gif Other incentives I've heard of include a bonus for upselling certain jobs... another system that is open to abuse. Any incentive program is going to need a certain amount of policing... just to keep honest guys honest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted January 6, 2008 Share Posted January 6, 2008 Jim's right I hate the incentive system because it get abused more then not, as far as I'm concerned the best incentive there is the pay check they receive at the end of the week, we have it and since it started I've seen more come backs then ever before, I do like the $.50 raise for each specialty, that would solve a lot of problems I have with guys not wanting to do ANY training what so ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I prefer being paid on a system that rewards a tech for training level and experience. I agree that you have to watch out for production based incentives. That's when the job just becomes all about the money and not quality. Pay the guys for all the courses and training they take. The more they are trained or certified the more they should make. But beware of the techs that like to take the training just for the sake of making more money and then just doing the easy gravy sucking jobs and never applying their skills and knowledge to what they are actually doing. Don't let them take advantage of that. Take into consideration that the more technical techs become, the more technical and harder to make money jobs start to come to those techs while the less trained techs are sucking up gravy and looking more productive. Also take into consideration how many years of technical knowledge your techs are contributing to your business. If they have been there a long time and have shared more of their knowledge and expertise or applied themselves more than some others, then you have to consider that that is worth something as well. There is a thread on this site about "The Trend". I have found over the years that higher trained techs feel like they have topped out on their maximum earned dollar and feel less rewarded for what they are doing and move on to something else. If you can keep these kind of techs happy, you will keep a higher level of knowledgeable techs within your employement. Just my . We have a system that is based on our level of training and expertise. Same as Jim's dealership: .50 cents per specialty above our regular rate. But you have to apply yourself to those levels of training and expertise or you don't get paid for them. Some guys like to take diesel training or driveability training just to get a raise but refuse to work in these areas when the work is handed to them. Therefore, they are worth less because they are just trying to suck money out of you for nothing in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Mind if I quote you on a few of those points Dwayne? We're about to impose a "certification" style of work distribution due to the gravy suckers at our little shop of horrors /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif I swear you wouldn't believe what goes on there at times..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I don't mind at all. Trust me, I have seen alot of those kinds in my travels. And they frustrate the hell out of those who strive to better themselves and take pride in what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron_Johnson Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Dwayne, That's why I left the dealer I was at. I took all my training and chose to specialize in diesels. Along comes 3 techs who saw that I was making pretty good money doing them, and started doing them as well. They wouldn't take any training, asked me for help all the time, had repeat repair after repeat repair (ie 4 egr coolers before it came to me for head gaskets and many more examples) All they were good for were was cleaning egr valves, replacing injectors, and reprogramming pcms. Thier effiency was good (in fact higher than mine-another sore spot) so the service manager didn't feel he should make any changes. Anyhow enough whining. My point is the more you know, the less you get paid effiency bonus or not. Somebody has to dig in and handle the headaches and usually that is the guy who takes the training. Correct me if I am wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I have always said that the more technical you become, the more you become that go to guy that everyone comes to for answers and the less money you make training everyone else. Alot like Jim, I love training young lads and helping people out. What's that you're always preachin there Jim? Intellectual Property, I believe in it too. But most dealerships never recognize that. All they recognize are accounting numbers and how much techs push through. It's like a gas pump with the little numbers just flippin and you see the dollar signs rollin in the back of managements eyeballs. And alot of them forget about all the comebacks, because the outcome of profits outweighs the problems. So hats off to you Don for recognizing a major problem in this trade. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif And hey, welcome aboard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHNO60 Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 I THINK BETTER THAN INCENTIVES WOULD BE THE OWNER WALKING THROUGH THE SHOP ONCE IN A WHILE AND POPPING HIS HEAD UNDER THE HOOD WITH YOU AND SAYING GREAT JOB AND THANK YOU!. THAT WOULD GO ALLOT FURTHER THAN THE OLD ARGUEMENT OF HES DOING LESS THAN ME B-S THAT IVE HEARD AT OTHER SHOPS.200 HOURS PER MONTH BETWEEN HOW MANY TECHS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dart505 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks for the input guys!Keep it comming! I had my own shop for 10 years before I went to work as a service manager at a dealer & it is a different world than what I am use to.I just do not know what to do about this yet.It looks like all our seasoned techs are capped at $20 per hour but get incentives.I just realised what what was said about the ones that are in the know end up having to help the other less knowledgeable ones.Some ca'nt pass the test but do good hands on.This is tough & the boss thinks that it will be easy to do something else.Time will tell. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 No offense Chris, but what is your labour rate down there? $20.00/hour for a wage seems quite low to me. The reason I ask, is that we have an unwritten guideline that we usually go by up here: It used to be Top quality/highly certified techs usually make 1/3 or 33% of the door rate. The lesser trained/lesser experienced techs are usually paid generally lesser. Some places up here now are starting fresh journeymen at 1/3 the door rate. It kinda varies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Dwayne... a lot of the shops in the US seem to be busy screwing their techs over.... but maybe not without reason because there is no burden of "proof of proficiency" like our licencing system. Of course, the bad ones make it hard on the good ones... Some guys want to unionize and bully management into higher wages.. I think that is going to bring a lot of baggage with it... Another group is trying to resurrect a class action suit against Ford regarding the shrinking SLTs (I urge everyone to look into that). A lot of states are "right to work" states.... basically, no labour laws.... Maybe some of the 'Muricans here can flesh out the specifics better than I can... what I do know... when I tell some of these guys what they can earn in Alberta, they call "Bullshit" and blow me off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 So did you sign up for that suit Jim? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Just Kiddin. Wow! That's all I can really think of saying at this point. That's like $19.79 now with the shrinking American Dollar. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif You can't even buy a good case of beer for $19.79. I'm just mukin around guys, don't take offense. But, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Come on guy's even here in the Motor City(Detroit) We spend about $20.00 for Labatt's oh I'm sorry is that Canada's beer??? Let's see... Training how about a D/P/M that wants you to be certified in everything except Canada's Bacon.... Now let me clue you in on what the parts guy has to go thru... 16 different courses on how to sell parts alone. Another 5 or 6 just to look them up and another 8-10 to be a Monger(manager) and NO INCENTIVES What did I get from this for completing all these courses including the management courses....NADA.... Other than finding out that the Dealer principal and his lackies getting a trip to Florida,Daytona for Speedweek. It kinda sucks,but glad I'm not there anymore!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Larry... not to be contrary... but one would hope that you gained knowledge... Knowledge, on it's own, is no assurance of higher rewards... Once we have the knowledge, we need to use it to our best interests... What I find with the WBTs that techs take.... most of them aren't worth the powder to blow them to hell at first glance... But they are chock full of stuff that isn't in our manuals... These things help to provide "assumed knowledge"... basics about the systems or techniques they encompass... After that, it is up to us to add the "seasonings". Ain't nobody gonna hand us anything on a platter... we need to reach out and take what is given... and use it to build on... (F@ck... I'm the resident motivational speaker /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif ). I didn't get to where I am by biding my time... I fought tooth and nail to learn what little I know now.... I spend my own time at work "playing with the IDS"... I read the "Description And Operations" sections in WSMs when I could be reading Tom Clancy or John Grisham.... I spent a lot of time just learning how to use my DMM... All of this is on my "dime". It wont improve my lot tomorrow... or even next week... but I am more valuable for having learned it... and the rewards will come. Anyones career is a complex equation... we need to see what variables we can change and change them as necessary. It wont come overnight and it may take that one "golden decision". Five years ago (slightly over), I had the desire I have now.... the same basic skill-set I have now.... I was making a little over $50K a year.... Moving to the dealer gave me knowledge I couldn't get anywhere else.... this allowed my to develop some of my skills and techniques... and these changes were the impetus for even more changes.... In that five short years, I have doubled my earning power... without sacrificing honesty and integrity. Yeah... the labour shortage has helped a great deal... And there has to be a certain amount of luck that landed me in a position that filled many gaps in my CAREER. The only difference between Elton John (aside from some of that homo stuff) and the guy playing auld lang syne on your aunties piano at Xmas is practice and learning.... "I have seen the enemy... and he is us..." - Pogo Possum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Jim, thanks for making me see the light!!! But come on without you hard asses here there wouldn't be the kids here. I LOVE WHAT I DO, WITHOUT ME LEARNING SOMETHING NEW EVERYDAY I WOULDN'T BE ME!!! BUT I LOVE THIS BECAUSE I'M LEARNING MORE THAN A REGULAR PARTS GUY!!! I GET DIRTY TOO!!! I have to say I make a fair living but not without a lot of sacrifices down the road!!!! I just hope that we make a difference down this long road we choose a long long time ago!!! Quote: Five years ago (slightly over), Jim, 5 or so are we exaggerating slightly!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Larry, you NAILED it!!! Choices... it's all about choices.... We can choose to be the best we can... or we can choose to be something less.... Life is what we make of it.... Training and experience and knowledge are very powerful forces when we combine them customer care... Your position behind a parts counter doesn't expose you to some of the stuff a more labour oriented job would.... be thankful for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Jim...Not to be a (CURMUDGEON) but I think you have it wrong....Yes guy's Jim is wrong in this fact!!!! I am as well as a few of my good friends in the dealers around town not afraid to get dirty with you guys out in the shop, NOT AFRAID TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO GET ON THE CREEPERS OR WHATEVER IS BY THE SIDE OF THE VEHICLE AT THE TIME INORDER TO GET THE CORRECT PART THE FIRST TIME, for you my brothers of grease and get dirty doing it. Don't mean to be a Dick but I can be when the moment is upon us parts guy's that do get DIRTY because we actually like to. Jim, I was asked a long time ago by a S/M to be a tech but decided of my choice that I would be better in the parts system than in the shop, and my guess was right!!! He had the #1 parts and service shop in the state at Cummins Michigan at the time. If I could do anything different than I did I probably would have prefered to be a S/A at the time. Me I'm a gearhead from wayback but not as old as YOU would prefer but still am. Me, I'm thinking about a building 09(do you remember these?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Larry.. we have one partsmonger... used to be the partsmongermanager.... He asked to be reduce back to "just a partsmonger" and got his wish (the year end financial why do we have this much stock? stuff). His coat is usually dirty from crawling around in the parking lot.... Sometimes, a tech has to kick him out of the way as he is trying to consolidate those crappy microcat illustrations to what we see in the real world. THAT is a GOOD partsman (oops, partsmonger)... and HE is making HIS choices.... He is CHOOSING to be as good as he possibly can. If crawling under a vehicle isn't a choice... can you describe what kind of shotgun they are pointing at you?? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif I thought I was wrong, once..... but I was mistaken /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Jim no shot gun pointed at me, I actually enjoy it.... NEED I SAY MORE.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Still love ya man, now where's my BUD LIGHT???? Wrong I'm never wrong and when I am refer to rule one, I'M NOT WRONG!!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif Okay, you done yet??? We could do this for a couple of days if you wish!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Bud Light? We'll have none of that diet beer here.... It's gonna be Molsons Canadian (eh?)... it's gonna be in a frosted mug.... and there's a eal good chance it's going to have some Clamato juice in it ( the venerable "clam-eye" ). Yes... I treat myself well... and, yes... alcohol is a food group... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Jim, did we say something? It sudenly got quiet about tech incentives. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Chris, are you still there? Did I hit a nerve with some of you down there? If I did, Sorry. But I am curious as to what is like down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 In my shop there is an incentive in place that rewards productivity. It is a simple pay raise for every 5 hours over 40 hours in a work week. I think its a dollar for every five hour increment topping off at 60 or 65. We also sell /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif BG services that come with the technician and service writer kick-backs. I think that is all I am going to say. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 "Back in the day".... I can remember well what we had for an incentive plan.... every two weeks, we got the bosses autograph.... This is way back in the days when we believed that we got paid for doing our jobs... if you wanted "extra"... you worked harder or longer hours... Now, before anyone thinks I'm anti-anything... I used to like my bonuses and perks when I was on the bench. The extra cash... the extra recognition... these all make us feel better.... But *should* they be necessary? A pay scale that gives different hourly rates for different discipilines.... It shouldn't be that hard to administer and it would reward the achievers for working on "technical" stuff... It might even goad some of the sluggards into improving their stature. BG wallet flushes?... I feel for ya, Kieth... The Wynns Extend guy stops by our store once a month... so far, we haven't had anyone in <that> chair that will entertain the idea... At this point, I am concerned - this type of activity is something I have been trying very hard to distance myself from.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 We also sell /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif BG services that come with the technician and service writer kick-backs. Ahhh... the good ol' wallet flush... no thanks... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smhair.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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