This cant be just our shop seeing this

[Tony302600]

Ok, so how many of you guys have been getting a whole bank of injectors out, due to combustion gases from an injector, (passenger side) on 05, 06's, especially on 07's. It's not a normal amount, in the past month we've counted 15 trucks. 8 07's, the rest 06's, and now the first 05 with a whole bank out.

 

Fuel pressure is good, fuel filters brand new or changed by us. We sent a fuel sample to get analized, it was ok. It cant just be our shop, anyone else seeing this? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

 

I cant wait til the warranty nazi's get a hold of all these tickets (which we've written up to the T) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whattodo.gif

[DwayneGorniak]

Not quite as many as you are having problems with. But I have seen a few.

[Bruce Amacker]

IH had some early 6.0 engines where the injector sleeves weren't pressed in far enough. If there was a leakage problem Tech Support told the technician to take the install tool, put it in the hole, and hammer it a few times to be sure the sleeve was seated (WTF, right?) This was several years ago.

 

As far as I know, this was early trucks only. Maybe they're having the same problem again?

 

Why it's on one side only I can't answer. It must be the overheat/head gasket devil looking over them... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

 

The last time I did a class at Franklin Power (your engine remanner) I thought it was interesting to note that all reman engines got brand new heads. This told me how fragile and non rebuildable these heads were. I wonder if they're still doing them this way?

 

 

 

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[OHNO60]

YUP HAD FEW HERE.INJECTORS WERE LOOSE.ACTUALLY MAKE IT A MANDITORY CHECK OF OTHERS ON SAME BANK TO PROTECT YOUR SELF.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

I think I had just asked about this not long ago... I didn't understand about replacing a bank of injectors. I was informed sorry don't remember who(I can only imagine who,Jim probably maybe Bruce).

 

Now we have the test stands and are able to check the injectors for flow and contamination. The dealers that we deal with are seeing less total bank failures. We hope to see less in the near future with the test stands that we have. We are even able to flush the injectors if there is a concern of contamination.

[H_Puryear]

The reason for the complete bank replacement is the lack of fuel to the other injectors on that same bank. Combustion gasses entering into the fuel supply rail = injectors hammering air = damaged injector bores. At least this is how I looked at things. We have done our share of these but there has been no real pattern. Seems I have done more with sticking pintles then I have with the injectors being loose. Customers just dont seem to understand how important clean fuel filters are to these things.

[DwayneGorniak]

Welcome aboard herb. You are correct about combustion chamber gases entering the fuel rail and starving the other injectors in that rail for fuel. The pressurized fuel acts as a cusion at the bottom of the pintle as the Hydraulic pressure on the top of the intensifier piston pushes the pintle downward. If there is no pressurized fuel in the system, it just hammers the pintle into the bore and ruins the affected injentors.

[Mekanik]

Herb is right. It can be 1 injector that is letting combustion gas in the fuel rail, but it can and will ruin the rest of the injectors on that bank. I had one in October with combustion gas and I replaced all 4 injectors on that side (passenger side) .

[Tony302600]

Yup, learned bout that 6 months ago. Now when i see i injector pulse during the baloon test, gets a whole bank. I dont want a comeback.

[Mekanik]

Do you have good results with the baloon test? I have tried it a few times without any real concrete evidence.

[Tony302600]

Oh yea..i found that #5 always pulses the most.....and always has a contribution code. Usually 1,3,5 are our on power balance and just barely runs.

 

A couple have gotten fuel pumps but the 07's had fuel pressure within the revised spec

[Keith Browning]

It is normally not easy to see but usually, if there is an injector leaking you will only see light pulses. I have only done the test three times. Once, nothing, another I "saw the balloon move" and the first time I did it the o-ring was so blasted the balloon filled up just to before the point where it would grow. I am not convinced that this is all that reliable because unless you DO have a major leak, you wont see anything. Someone here mentioned on another topic to try removing the fuel filter and look for air bubbles. I am still waiting to try that but it sounds like a better idea. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif

 

 

This was the one, in a van no less. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif It was missing on that cylinder and the two adjacent cylinders. This picture was from the article I wrote on it, arrow A is showing the missing copper gasket and B points to the blown out o-ring. This was the only time I have seen this on a 6.0L but I saw quite a few on the 7.3L, also early in production. Come to think of it, it has been a while since I have seen any of this craziness. To be honest, If I hadn't seen this and the balloon do what it did that day I would likely be telling you the balloon test is bullshit and doubt I will ever see that again.

[eastendpowerstroke]

I had used the balloon test many times with good results but honestly I do mostly use it to isolate the bank of injectors I am replacing. I find that the fuel filter trick is AWESOME because I can see the little bubbles in the fuel much faster that it takes to move a balloon. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[Jim Warman]

David... we like the fuel bowl thing, too.... We should already have a miss on the affected bank... the bubbles just prove out our suspicions.

[H_Puryear]

As long as its done correctly, it works great. However if you allready know what side its happening on then you allready know what it needs. I view this strictly as a personal need to know test. By the way Keith. Great picture. I haven't seen one quite that bad yet. Thankfully.

[blown99]

Can someone give me a quick run down on the procedure for checking for air bubbles in the fuel filter housing?

 

I have yet to see any combustion gasses entering the fuel system in the international chassis yet. Now that I just wrote that, there will be one in the lot on Monday morning.

Thanks

Mark

[Jim Warman]

Remove the cap and filter from the secondary housing... fill the housing close to the top and crank the engine... a LOT quicker than the balloon test.

 

Of course, if you happen to have missing cylinders on both banks.... you're back to square one...

[eastendpowerstroke]

Remove the cap and filter from the secondary housing... fill the housing close to the top and crank the engine... a LOT quicker than the balloon test.

 

Of course, if you happen to have missing cylinders on both banks.... you're back to square one...

That brings up another quickie, I found that if you use a rubber tip blow gun stuck over the tip of the injector watching the screened portion of the injector for bubbles to figure out what injector to keep.

[blown99]

I take it, you have to disconnect the electric fuel pump to prevent fuel from being pumped up to the filter housing? The international chassis uses a gear driven fuel pump; probably have to come up with some way to shut off fuel going to the filter housing.

Thanks.

[Jeff_]

If it's an F series you can just leave the key off, and disconnect the 1 wire connector near the heater case for the starter ignition circuit, then just touch it to battery positive to crank the engine without energizing anything else.

[Keith Browning]

That brings up another quickie, I found that if you use a rubber tip blow gun stuck over the tip of the injector watching the screened portion of the injector for bubbles to figure out what injector to keep.

 

Holy cow! When I read that I was a little skeptical. My new tech has a bank of injectors out and I remembered this statement. So I tried it. One injector was allowing air past the pintle and bubbles were coming from the fuel inlet port. The other three injectors, no bubbles. By the way, this engine was missing on all four on bank two.

 

Cool stuff! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[eastendpowerstroke]

Your welcome Keith /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/king.gif

It's cool huh I did that on a econoline short bus I knew I had at least one bad injector but was not willing to pull the glow plugs to perform the "balloon test" in full so I tried that and you have seen it works. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[Bruce Amacker]

Charles Ledger shot this picture of a vacuum test that is described in a TSB letter. It does work.

 

 

 

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[haynie]

i had one doing this after rep[lacement of all 4 injectors twice i called hotline and they told me that the head was cracked and pushing all the fuel out the rail starving injectors for fuel causing them to fail. was told to replace head and all 4 injectors again. love the 6.0s

[Keith Browning]

Charles Ledger shot this picture of a vacuum test that is described in a TSB letter.

What TSB? Ford? I don't recall seeing this but it is basically the same as putting air at the nozzle... thanx for sharing this! The ONLY problem with this is I have had bad luck over the years with my vacuum pumps leaking. Mighty-Vac's they were, I now have a Snap-On which seems to be okay.