Hempstead Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I am looking for any suggestions for a scan tool. I work at a Ford dealer and the only diesel tech there and we only have one ids. I am tried of always waiting for the ids. I am thinking that I am going to buy a vcm and use it as a PDS, because I already have the Hp pocket pc. The only second guessing that I am doing is that I also do some side work and would like a scan tool for all makes. Any suggestions would be greatly appericated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Buy the VCM like you said. But then Buy a reasonably priced laptop and you can run the laptop as an IDS unit but also with a program on it like Autoenginuity http://www.autoenginuity.com/index.html .The reason I say this is that the PDS system is limited compared to IDS. Just a thought that may be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempstead Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Do you have the autoenginuity program on your's? If so how do you like it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 No, I keep thinking about buying it though. However, there a few others on this sight that may have more insight into it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't have AE myself... but I've read stuff from those that do.... While it sounds very good, I believe it lacks active commands. What would I do? I have a lot of scan tools in the shop... but.... If I wanted one for the fat old man.... I'd prolly spring for a wireless VCM and see if the boss would spring for the subscription once the "free" part is over. Imagine... the wireless laptop on the side of the toolchest.... a wireless network in the shop and a wireless printer available.... A wireless VCM plugged into the DLC... OASIS Quick Start at your fingertips... I use my cell phone to call hotline... I can "talk" to hotline from my laptop... the added utility of my own VCM would be like.... like.... I dunno... but it would be great. I used to frequent a woodworking newsgroup on usenet.... Most of these guys would say "Buy the very best tools ... and only cry once instead of every time you use them..."... There's going to be many points of view... but only you can decide what you expect your tool to do (your scan tool, man...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I don't have AE myself... but I've read stuff from those that do.... While it sounds very good, I believe it lacks active commands. It lacks active commands on Ford CAN vehicles. It has great active commands on many other vehicles. BUT: Don't expect a $1000 piece of software to do everything an IDS, Tech2, DRB3, Mastertech, and StarScan can do. Be real with your expectations. What would I do? I have a lot of scan tools in the shop... but.... If I wanted one for the fat old man.... I'd prolly spring for a wireless VCM and see if the boss would spring for the subscription once the "free" part is over. Imagine... the wireless laptop on the side of the toolchest.... a wireless network in the shop and a wireless printer available.... A wireless VCM plugged into the DLC... OASIS Quick Start at your fingertips... I use my cell phone to call hotline... I can "talk" to hotline from my laptop... the added utility of my own VCM would be like.... like.... I dunno... but it would be great. And spend hours every month messing with the wireless items to keep them working. I still don't have my F'ing VCM talking. I'm beginning to think a wireless VCM is like a dog and pony show. When I had my wireless PDS it was of almost no value. It sounds cool, but you still have to walk over to the truck constantly to key on, key off, push the brake pedal, etc. And I know if I do get the wireless working, it's only a matter of time until I leave it in a customer's truck accidentally. I used to frequent a woodworking newsgroup on usenet.... Most of these guys would say "Buy the very best tools ... and only cry once instead of every time you use them..."... Really well put. I'm going to steal this phrase and use it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif There's going to be many points of view... but only you can decide what you expect your tool to do (your scan tool, man...) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm at an indy shop and wanted something to suppliment the company's assortment of OEM scan tools for the same reason you have (tool I need is in use ofter enough to be a hassle). I ended up with the Auto Enginuity that I run on my own laptop. I'm sure that Bruce can comment in better depth about its abilities but I have a couple observations. It is slow to get going; especially if I just want to look for codes or watch a couple PIDs it seems to take forever to boot and set up. Second, I've had a couple times that my computer had sat long enough unplugged in hibernate that the battery died half way through my road test. It has some nice features, and for the price, it is really versitile; but most of the time (when I have a choice) I'll go to the Star tester (even for 6.0L). At the time that I bought it I was considering a Nemisys; after using the AE I am still considering it. I am not sure how well the Nemisys does on 6.0 / CAN but it would take some of the worry out of using my laptop in the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vloney Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 We have pcs in each bay for oasis access, I got tired of the wait as well, so, I got 15 foot usb extension cables, and loaded the ids software into the pc. No one was using the ngs plus, so I re-configured the vcm for IDS use. Just cant tale it on a test drive (anybody got a 5mile long extension cord?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Adam.. chances are that your shop has a VDR gathering dust, somewhere... Lord knows I never hear about anyone actually using them. You'll need the VDR to IDS cable and the VDR will want to configure itself... after that it only takes a few moments to set the VDR up to capture the info you want and a few seconds to download the snapshots to your laptop.... And that just might be your five mile long extension cord... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 At the time that I bought it I was considering a Nemisys; after using the AE I am still considering it. Make sure you borrow one for a couple of weeks before you pull the trigger. The Nemisys might be faster at pulling codes and data, but it does not have the function of AE across all car lines. I am not sure how well the Nemisys does on 6.0 / CAN but it would take some of the worry out of using my laptop in the shop. I'll remind you that FMC never released the CAN bidirectional code to ETI, which means that no aftermarket scan tool has bidirectional controls on a Ford CAN vehicle besides basics like KOEO, KOER, and buzz. You'll find the Nemisys is very limited in it's abilities just like AE on all CAN Fords, like all aftermarket scan tools. Did you talk the Boss into getting an IDS yet? That tool is not only the best I've ever used, but it's ROI is almost immediate if you charge an hour for reflashes. Have your boss call me and I'll convince him. Quit F'ing around with aftermarket scan tools on CAN Fords. It's the biggest mistake you can make. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Just an FYI.... at <someones> discretion, hooking up even a PDS is $119.95 (plus gouge and screw tax). This will include some very basic diag time... PPTs and any symptom driven diag time is extra... A full blown IDS (including VMM) is going to be something like 10 large or so in Canada... recouping that investment is very important. This doesn't include the subscriptions once the freebie wears out. Box score... I have two IDS (one VMM)... Two PDS... A Genysis (for all make capability and simply because the government makes me have proprietary module capability for some of my inspections).. a WDS that I keep at the ready for using the PVT without miles of wire going on.... one NGS... all the usual Star and SuperStar crap and a Blue Streak BDM (which is for sale, BTW). That's a lot of coin tied up in specialized tools.... Like Bruce says.... buy what is going to work for you... don't shop price... "Buy the best there is... and only cry once....". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I haven't had any positive indications of the company stepping up for the real deal. It just isn't in my budget or I would equip myself to the highest level possible. My world is a bit behind most of you in that most of the Fords I see are still 7.3s. Our business is probably about 45% Powerstroke, 40% Dodge/Cummins and the rest 6.5 and 6.6 GM, Diesel Motorhomes (mostly Cummins), a few gas motorhomes and a few medium duty trucks. I appreciate your feedback and continue to use it to try to get good things to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I have the auto enginuity scan tool on my laptop. I looked at all kinds and even asked around on here before buying one. I work on mostly 7.3s and it does everyhting I want it to do. When it comes to 6.0s I would like it to do more but like bruce said ford wont give up the code to do everything on CAN vehicles. For the money it is worth it I think. The updates are affordable as well. I do some stuff on GM and Dodge as well and it works better on those as well. Ultimately it is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 Box score... I have two IDS (one VMM)... Two PDS... A Genysis (for all make capability and simply because the government makes me have proprietary module capability for some of my inspections).. a WDS that I keep at the ready for using the PVT without miles of wire going on.... one NGS... all the usual Star and SuperStar crap and a Blue Streak BDM (which is for sale, BTW). That's a lot of coin tied up in specialized tools.... "Maybe" I have found someone who is as much of a tool junkie as me. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Box score, including what I owned when I sold the shop: 2 IDS complete One PDS (now gone /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif ) 3 NGS's 3 ProLink's with 25 cartirdges and an IBOB (dead horses, not but big $ years ago) 7 laptops with IH software, 7 Deuscth cable kits (I teach software classes) AutoEnginuity Ease Car-Code E-Scan So much OE software I can barely list it, and multiples, too: all IH software, AllisonDoc, Bendix, Wabco, Meritor, etc, etc. Genisys Mastertech with dozens of adapters and cartridges Tech 2 with all the bells DRB3 with all the bells Another GM scanner I can't remember the name on Several scopes and 4 gasses. I guarantee when I sold the shop were were better equipped than any aftermarket or dealer shop in the county. He got the Tech2, DRB, ProLinks, and one of the NGS's. He who dies with the most toys........! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Ok now I have a question for Jim and you too Bruce, I'm looking at the Genisys and I'm more concerned with the coverage of GM and Chrysler then I am with Ford (I have my own VCM) I got sucked into Matco's Pro Scan Plus under the influence that it would communicate with my GM 6.5, make a long story short... it doesn't do what I want it to do with the 6.5, and because I tend to work on everything that comes in the door I'm looking for something thats up to the task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 I'm still trying to integrate the Genysis into daily use (meaning use it Fords as well.... be nice to use this investment all we can).... Without a decent place to "rack" it, it usually gets put back into it's travel case and forgotten about (the PDSs hang on the wall and the IDSs are on carts - ready to go at a moments notice). Thus far, the Genysis has been a pleasure to use... The GUI is easy to work with and it hasn't failed to communicate with the few vehicles I've connected to (including a Hyundai sonething-or-other). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 The Genisys is a good tool- not great, and AE is also a good tool. I'd take AE over the Genisys in several areas- PID list, bi-directional abilities, low cost of updates, current (as current) model abilities, and more. The only thing not good with AE is you have to haul a laptop with you on a road test. Bang for your buck, you're not going to top AE. My suggestion is to try them both out for at least a week before you take the plunge. Are either of them perfect? Absolutely not. They (and most aftermarket scanners) are loaded with glitches. Keep in mind you are spoiled by using the best scanner in automotive history, the IDS. Any other scan tool is quite pale in comparison, and especially pale when you start looking at aftermarket scanners. Take a road trip down to Cleveburg and I'll show you both of them. PS Make sure you buy the full blown AE ($800-1000) and not the generic that's $199. http://www.autoenginuity.com/products-scantoolpc.html /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Take a road trip down to Cleveburg and I'll show you both of them. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Trust me the thought has crossed my mind on an occasion or two, if I could swing it with the boss I'd be interested in a couple of your courses. Maybe we'll just see what he's got to say... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cover.gif One more thing, I need something OBDI as well, seeing as I'm the only one who will work on the older stuff /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Trust me the thought has crossed my mind on an occasion or two, if I could swing it with the boss I'd be interested in a couple of your courses. Keep in mind I don't do a lot of public classes, and not many in Cleveland- just once a year in June. One more thing, I need something OBDI as well, seeing as I'm the only one who will work on the older stuff /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Ugh, that throws a wrench into the works. I'd still suggest AE, and buy some used POS like a Brick to do OBD1. OBD1 is so easy that most any scanner does a good job, and they are easily and cheaply available. Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Bruce cool avatar, but I think you should have seperate course for your best buddies here on the DTS. Maybe in Detroit...I would pay for this if you did, and I'm sure some guys from work would get in too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 I know you could count Aaron and I in, and a couple guys from the other Ford stores around the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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