Guest Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 ok i heard that there were some fatalities do to fuel injections problems on these trucks and causing them to rev up and take off.. and no matter what you do you cant stop them.. is this true.. do you have any facts to cover this.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 It was one of the first 6.0L engine failures we had. It was the classic fuel diluted oil scenario, caused by the leaky fuel injectors in the early build engines. The engine held together but after it revved out of control there were many bent valves and a lot of piston to cylinder head contact. You could tell that the engine had been running poorly and using oil for some time. I remember the tech who was scared out of his mind because he didn't know what to to when the engine took off and kept running after removing the key. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whattodo.gif Here are some of the pictures---> Engine Failure One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 That's why a CO2 fire extinguisher is part of the safety gear here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Hey Greg, Did you write this brilliant work?????? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif "Here is a copy of a post to another board - I had a little more time to write this one.. Here goes with my 6.0 runaway story. Started out as a normal day. Impacts running, wrenches clattering, techs chatting amongst themselves. I'm assigned a 2003 f-250 that runs poorly all the time. I pull it in, and start doing my diagnosis. During one step I am watching the ICP and IPR during various modes of operation in the stall. At one point I revved it up to about 2500 rpm and then let off the throttle. Unfortunately, the problem with this truck was a leaking injector o-ring that was filling the crankcase with fuel. When the crankshaft started to spin that fast, it whipped the oil and fuel mix into a foam that started to rise in the engine. In just a moment, the foam started coming out of the crankcase breather and drafting into the intake stream. You see, oil burns in diesel engines just fine, especially if it is diluted with fuel. Well, when I came off the throttle, the engine didn't slow down. The rpm continued to rise, 3000, 3500, 4000. Turning the key off had no effect, of course, since the engine is no longer running on fuel provided by the injectors. (switching over to third person, since it is more dramatic that way.) The whole shop starts to fill with smoke and the sound of a screaming turbo. Technicians all stop what they are doing to see what the commotion is about. The engine rpm climbs higher - 4500, 5000. The technicians start to run for the doors, trying to escape the deafening sound of an engine straining to hold itself together. The ground starts to shake under everyone's feet, and the waves of sound exiting the shop feel like the hand of God pressing on your chest. The building sheet metal starts to rattle and vibrate as the rpm continues to climb - 5500, 6000, 6500, 7000. The turbocharger has surpassed the level of human hearing. The pitch is so high that the sound just dissapears. A crash comes from the vehicle as the belt fails and whips the power steering pump off the engine. The smoke coming from the tailpipe darkens the shop so much that the automatic headlights come on. Still the engine rpm climbs - 7500, 8000, 8500, 9000. The smoke is so thick now that we can no longer see the tailights. All the tecnicians know what is coming, and are protecting their bodies by cowering behind poles, other vehciles, anything available. The RPM reaches 9500, 10000, 10500, 11000. And all at once, a sound rolls across the witnesses. A sound that can only be described as a combination of a nearby lightning strike and the sound of every toolbox in the shop overturning at once and scattering their tools. The shock wave is felt physically by shirts and hair being blown. The sound is so loud that the echo from Home Depot 1/2 mile away was still shockingly loud. And then the silence. The smoke is forbidding, hiding the havoc that a little bit of extra fuel has provided. We venture into the fog towards the truck. When it seems we've walked too far, we see it - like a ship resolving in the midnight fog. The tailights are out. The truck is sitting at an unusual angle - down in the front. One technician starts coughing from the smoke. We take a few more steps, and feel a splash when we put our feet down. A rapidly expanding puddle is coming from the front of the truck. But wait, where is the front of the truck? It looks fine up to the front doors, but then it just dissapears. Upon closer inspection, we discover that the entire front cap is destroyed, blown apart by engine pieces flung out at high rates of speed. Both front tires are flattened. Engine parts have damaged vehicles as far as 5 stalls away. You can look at where the right hand cylinder head was and see the floor all the way through the block. Ironically, the grill, even the headlights are still intact. And my first thought was "well, I don't have to work on this one anymore." My second thought "Damn, that was freakin' awesome!" And that, my friends, is a 6.0L runaway. Next week, the story of the tech who experienced a runaway on a test drive! The torque shift transmission will still hold gear without any tcm commands... and the truck will go from 35 to well beyond what the speedo will read in shockingly few seconds!" Posted on FMC Dealer June 16 by Greg Holekamp: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I love it! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 A literary marvel, no doubt, but my BS detector is ringing at full volume. I don't dispute the runaway, but the valve springs will float well below the 11K claimed. How would he know the RPM, anyway? The tach only goes to 5K and I can tell you from first hand experience the last thing you're doing in a situation like this is to document RPM. I have had two runaways in my shop, both Cummins 855's, and they are scary, but for it to cut the front clip off is BS. At most would be a grenaded short block with components hanging out. In my opinion, the flywheel would last beyond the valve spring's RPM limit. Even if the flywheel let go and made it through the bellhousing, (highly unlikely) the parts would be stopped by the cowl. If this story were true, the pictures of it would be all over the internet and FMC would have a recall going to install DDA style mousetraps on the intakes. As for the guy who wrote this, he's an idiot. It's people like this that the press like to quote and the basis for many "urban legends". /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Yeah, cool story but I think the BS meter pegged right after the tach did. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I still love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 ok now were do the fatalities come into play??? i heard like 7 poeple died cus of this happening on the road Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Quote: 11K claimed. How would he know the RPM, anyway? The tach only goes to 5K and I can tell you from first hand experience the last thing you're doing in a situation like this is to document RPM. I have had two runaways in my shop, both Cummins 855's, and they are scary, but for it to cut the front clip off is BS. At most would be a grenaded short block with components hanging out. In my opinion, the flywheel would last beyond the valve spring's RPM limit. Even if the flywheel let go and made it through the bellhousing, (highly unlikely) the parts would be stopped by the cowl. If this story were true, the pictures of it would be all over the internet and FMC would have a recall going to install DDA style mousetraps on the intakes. As for the guy who wrote this, he's an idiot. It's people like this that the press like to quote and the basis for many "urban legends". Bruce is right. When I worked at Cummins we had Gordon Food Service trucks coming in to the shop about 3 a week. All that had "grenaded" internally. 8.3ISC Cummins powered all electronic and all the same damage. We hooked up to the ECM and the history showed that all of the engines oversped 3100rpms. When we confronted GFS about this we found out that their drivers were downshifting to far and the truck would overspeed them and boom goes the engine. NO WARRANTY/ Customer pay only. I haven't seen a diesel that could go over 3500rpms and not come apart. I sell Stewart Warner gauges and don't have any that even read over 3500rpm's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 That is a great story. Very well written. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I haven't seen a diesel that could go over 3500rpms and not come apart. Power Strokes top out a little over 4,000 RPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Okay but come on 11k????Where when and how???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Originally Posted By: LARRYATSTI I haven't seen a diesel that could go over 3500rpms and not come apart. Power Strokes top out a little over 4,000 RPM. Yea, I saw this too, but he's talking about big bore engines. I wonder how fast those 855's turned in my shop when they ran away. The roar was deafening, and one blew the belts off.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cover.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 Yea, I saw this too, but he's talking about big bore engines. Right you are. The only engine runaway I have personally witnessed was in technical school... setting the injector racks on Detroit 8V-92's. A two stroke V-8 runaway screams like the devil. The instructor was prepared with a fire extinguisher. Think he's seen that happen before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 One of the few sabbaticals I've taken from this career involved big trucks.... I had a brief love affair with an R700 Mack with the 375 V8.... it was "opened up" to 2600 rpm and didn't seem to mind it at all... except for the fact you can't keep valve seat inserts in these friggin' engines. After the "divorce" I drove a KW for a few months .... originally an oil patch truck (it had a Fuller I can't remember how many speed - RTO12515 I think - and a 4 speed behind that for the power tower to run a winch) with a wet kit for an end dump. 8V92 with some non-stock parts opened up to somewhere close to 3K. That was impressive to hear. We had a few 6.0s come in on the hook with "redesigned" oil pans a couple even perforated... My first introduction to a runaway 6.0 was on the highway. It was the first 6.0 "leaker" we saw in our shop and I would later drain over 42 liters out of the crankcase... This was before Ford announced the injector concern. I was doing about 100 km/h and stuffed my foot in it while watching I can't remember what PIDs..... I lifted at 120ish km/h but the truck didn't slow down... Wondering just what the hell was going on, I rode the brakes (moderate pressure)... Once I got the thing down to about 70~80, I could relax the brake a little and things returned to "normal".... I tried the procedure all over again.... with the same result. OK... "Houston, we have a problem".... Still not suspecting a "runaway" type scenario, I limped back to the shop keeping the tach low.... Seemed that, as long as I didn't get the motor "excited", it was business as usual.... Back at the ranch, with the hood up, I noticed a new oil leak... coming from the dipstick tube O-ring.... When I removed the drain plug I wound up using two five gallon pails and a half a bag of floor dry.... *Most* of the trucks we work on are fitted with positive air shut offs (oilfield requirements). The most popular one is the Rhoda Deaco with auto-activation (no switch to flip or handle to pull). These "steal" an rpm signal from the alternator rectifier. While they are fitted with a "cheater" button that supposedly give the opportunity to adjust the rpm set at 1/3 the required rpm, we've had a couple that gave us concerns... Now, we set them up at "live" rpm... Rev the engine to governed speed and adjust the set point to kill the motor (an "interesting" sound) and then advance the set point a bit.... This can almost be an art-form on stick shift trucks since we know that the driver is going to overspeed the motor on a downhill and we'll want to compensate for that.... Even the "auto" PASs are equipped with a toggle switch.... every now and again, we get a phone call "my truck wont start".... And my first question is "Does it have a PAS?"..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLR95 Posted January 19, 2008 Share Posted January 19, 2008 I have only seen a 7.3 runaway after turbo replacement and an innercooler that didn't get cleaned out. Wasn't a bang at all just went from scream to nothing and then devistation under the drivers side head. A different experience to say the least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Bruene Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 My run-away 4.5 buried the tach (I can't remember how high it goes, but it was off the scale). I unloaded a fire extinguisher into the air cleaner to try and shut it down (which it did), but it still ended up needing an engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 I had one 4.5L runaway sucking oil from a frozen breather pre recall I had the cab up and stuffed my jacket over the aircleaner opening it seemed to rev to the moon for a long time but was probaly only 10 sec or so , it scared the stuff outa me /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whattodo.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 OK, this is about as far OT as Detroits, so I don't feel guilty. We had a customer that was having hard start issues with his Duramax, so he used starting fluid. Apparantly, a lot. It started, ran away, made a lot of noise, and died. When it got to our shop it had no compression and very loose valves. Sorry, nobody died; but I think he got weak in the knees when he got the quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 I had a mild runaway a few months back, a local paving company had this F250 that I had just put a new engine in about 2 months prior, so anyways they claim it was driving down the road and just up and quit. So I wander out and have a look under the truck for anything out of the ordinary, nothing obvious so I grab the keys and IDS and head back out to the truck. While monitoring the PIDS I crank her over, everything is cool, ICP IPR and FICM sync are all ok but it don't sound quite right, grab the FP guage and tap into the filter housing.... 55PSI ok so now I'm confused a little. I go grab a glass container and drain a bit of this so called fuel and looky here it appears to be 100% water, another tech pours a little on the ground and trys to light it.... nada not even a little smoke. So we drain the tank, replace the filters and drain the heads the best we can, have to crank the hell out of it but it finally fires up and runs like a bag of dirt, figuring the 5 gallons of fuel isn't going to be enough to go for a road test to make sure it's all good I head on out on the road, hit the throttle to merge into traffic and all hell breaks loose, this thing took off like a friggen rocket, smoke out the pipe like crazy, couldn't see a damn thing and I'm hanging on for the ride, both feet on the brakes hoping not to hit anyone. Eventually it came back down and I limp it back to the fuel station to put more into her. Added another 30 bucks worth to her and headed back out on the road but not daring to get on this thing just yet. I head out to a area that isn't busy during the business hours and jump on it, and you guessed it away we went, smoke everywhere and it putting me back in the seat like a old GTO I once had, it ran up to around the 4500 mark for about 30 secs then all of a sudden it just returned to idle, try her again and it returns to idle with nothing you wouldn't expect, only thing I can think of that was the root cause was not getting all of what ever it was in that tank out of the system. But I tell you it was a hell of a ride /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I was at the Detroit training center in 2005 for LCF and was talking to a tech there who had a 6.0L runaway on him. He told me that the fire extinguisher didn't work. It just slowed the engine down for a little bit. He told me that he finally took a hammer and smashed a hole in the intake tube going to the turbo, and took a hose and sprayed water directly into the tube. This guy also told me that the fire department was coming and called for backup before they got to the shop because there was so much smoke and there was also a news helicopter hovering overhead. I have to confess here... A long time ago, when I was still new to this whole diesel thing, but just knowlegable to get cocky I was trying to get a 7.3L started with silicone spray. I ended up using the whole can before I got the truck pushed in. A little while later after I remove the ice cube from the fuel pick-up, I start the thing up. Fired right up and went way past the red line. Can you imagine how I felt when the thing was still screaming when I turned the ignition off? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif It ran for another 3 seconds and then stalled. Those 3 seconds felt like an eternity. I fired it back up and it ran great. No damage. I got VERY lucky. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustedKnucklez Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 My lead just got our first 6.4 runaway. It had a terrible clanking sound, and if the rpm's went above 3000 it would just go. If you pulled the key out, it would take it a few seconds then shut down. The engine is currently on a rotisserie. I'll keep ya posted on what we find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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