Jim Warman Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 .. turbcharger boost contol position sensor. This is a job 1 truck and recurring memory code P2563 - cleared and punted the first day - truck was running great. Came back the next - code in memory. Cleared and road tested... didn't come back. Ran KOER and got a P1408 (EGR flow) ODDTC. OK... now I might be getting somewhere. PPT W led me to the EGR system test... passed???? Reran KOER... nothing came back... OK - back to my recurring code... Everything is working right now so we aren't going to find anything, right? Wiggle test - looked for bad pins... nothing. Started a hotline request and OASIS told me P2563 isn't a valid code.... PPT AK sure makes it sound like a valid code... Long story short... hotline tells me that engineering is investigating the EBP sensor and tube for this concern... But nobody can explain what the EBP has to do with a position sensor concern. I was under the impression that the VGT actuator physically measured it's position for positive feedback.... Anyone else see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 .. turbocharger boost control position sensor. This is a job 1 truck and recurring memory code P2563 - cleared and punted the first day - truck was running great. Came back the next - code in memory. Cleared and road tested... didn't come back. Ran KOER and got a P1408 (EGR flow) ODDTC. OK... now I might be getting somewhere. PPT W seems pretty weak. EGR command worked? Did the engine change pitched when the EGR was commanded? Did the EGRTO elevate? PPT W led me to the EGR system test... passed???? Reran KOER... nothing came back... OK - back to my recurring code... Everything is working right now so we aren't going to find anything, right? Wiggle test - looked for bad pins... nothing. Started a hotline request and OASIS told me P2563 isn't a valid code.... PPT AK sure makes it sound like a valid code... Long story short... hotline tells me that engineering is investigating the EBP sensor and tube for this concern... But nobody can explain what the EBP has to do with a position sensor concern. I was under the impression that the VGT actuator physically measured it's position for positive feedback.... Anyone else see this? I don't think the VGT has a feedback system in it and relies on the EBP to provide feedback. (didn't they learn from the 6.0 this doesn't work?) The VGT CAN bus is for actuation only. There's lots of stuff inside the actuator, but I don't see a position sensor, and the MaxxForce7 manual specifically states it uses EBP for a feedback device. IH had a boatload of troubles with a similar actuator on the DT engine. You could have a problem with the sensor or the actuator. The sensor's cheaper to try on an intermittent, I guess. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 2, 2008 Author Share Posted February 2, 2008 Hotline tells me that this is a concern that engineering is investigating and we might see "something" on it in the near future. But thanks for filling in that memory gap on the VGT actuator... For some reason, I still vaguely recall something about the communications being bidirectional and position was reported over the CAN buss... unless I have somehow confused this with the EGR valve? But that does explain the EBPs involvement.... Now that leaves that other little "nugget"... PC/ED calls this a concern with the boost sensor A circuit performance/range (memory warning) and takes us straight to the VGT actuator and lists the only possible causes as the PCM, the actuator, the power supply wires and the CAN buss wires. That's asking for a LOT of "assumed knowledge" from any old guys suffering from CRS. The introductions to PPTs in the new manual leave something to be desired when compared to the older PC/EDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Holy crap! You mean to tell me that control module does not have a position sensor? Anyone have access to thier IDS? Is there a PID for it??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 VGTDC Variable Turbocharger Geometry Duty Cycle Percent VGT_F Variable Turbocharger Geometry Fault Fault/No Fault VGT_MES Variable Turbocharger Geometry Measured Percent Closed Percent Yes, it's in the PID list and in the IDS. The only capture I have of it is KOEO reading 9.89%. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron_Johnson Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Let me guess, happened this week when it was cold? 3 trucks here, same code. One also had a high pitch noise coming from the egr throttle plate. Hotline gave me the same "ebp sensor" response. They told me when the pcm doesnt see the increase in ebp it will attempt to move to vgt to increase backpressure. I suspect my trucks had frozen vgt actuators as I left them inside overnight and they were fine the next day....maybe i am way off here though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Well I have not had the need to look at the turbo operation on this engine yet until now. A position sensor would have been a good idea once again. At least we have an external linkage to look at if we need to verify movement of the actuator but I just fear a repeat of all the driveability problems we had with the EP and the 6.0L. Yep. A position sensor sure would take the guesswork out of the diagnostics. Ever see a a 6.0L with an in-range EP failure? I have!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 I had one in the summer do this and I am working on one for this concern right now. The one in the summer was the actuator itself. Customer got stuck in the scag with a trailer on the truck. Overheated the actuator from working the ever living sh!t out of it. Replaced the actuator and it hasn't been back since. Present truck: being that I saw this in the summer, I asked the customer when the problem occured with this truck. Guess what? He got stuck with a trailer on the back. Talked to hotline. They told me to disconnect the VGT actuator from the turbo and sweep the rod on the acuator and the lever on the turbo as well to see if either one binds. The VGT actuator actually stuck when I pulled back on the shaft. When you pull back on the VGT actutaor and let go of it, it should return freely. Turbo feels fine. Beware: measure the length of sweep on the actuator and only move the lever on the turbo that far. Just an inch and a quarter is what I measured. If you over extend the turbo vanes, they may feel like they are binding because you have over extended the vanes. I just finished putting the actuator on at the end of the day on Friday. I will be road testing it Monday morning and I will keep you posted. Till then /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 the other diesel tech in are shop had that code,same thing called hotline and they got him to replaced ebp sensor + tube and map sensor but the pinpoint test would have you look at the actuator,the truck had come in 2 times befor and he could not find anything wrong till he called hotline,one thing to note is that when he took the map sensor out it was cover in black crap,the truck has not been back yet. Hard to get info from the hotline on stuff like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 3, 2008 Author Share Posted February 3, 2008 Steve, we need to remember that the first hotline hears of some of these concerns is when we call them... If they get one or two complaints, that might be "business as usual". When the complaints start growing, the engineers give the concern a priority (might be bottom of the list, might be near the top). We get stuck with whatever they give us.... for me, hotline is having me change parts needlessly - at least I have the appearance of "doing something". This will, eventually, turn into "take no action - engineering is investigating". This is a bad place to be.. the customer assumes we are blowing him off and using excuses.... (some people still shoot the messenger). We hope and pray it doesn't turn into the PCM "reflash of the week" debacle like we had with the 6.0. All in all, other than the fuel consumption issue, the 6.4 launch has been a vast improvement over other FoMoCo diesel launches... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I see what saying and understand the hotline issue,I was not putting them down I know they have alot on there plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 Don't get me wrong Steve... I think we all put them down at one time or another.... usually just after they don't give us a "magic bullet"... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Well, so far so good with this unit. I'm gonna keep road testing it for a while though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmorris Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Gotta grave dig on this one. Have an 09 here setting P2563, no hard fault when it came in. KOEO/KOER passed code in CMDTC's. Did some digging and the general concenses is the EBP sensor and tube. Nothing from Ford on this though except a PCM update for code setting on KOER, not cmdtc's. Wonder if its a cold weather issue because it hit -33C here last couple of days. Truck is off warranty so we are clearing the code for now and will see what happens. Will update if I hear anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I had one of these as well, P006b, p2263 and p2563. All ok od, but codes in cm. FF showed iat at -35`c and road speed 75 to 110 km/hr for all codes, I figured maybe the ebp froze up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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