LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Quote: Larry: Last Mon I replaced out of range fuel sender and fuel filters customer said ran out of fuel still indicating 1/4 tank. He brought back Fri I tested it had codes for 1,5,7 inj missfire cyl balance #1 low drove into shop inj cleard up now running fine went on road test around town fuel pressure 50psi steady pulled up to stop #1 then #5 then #7 then it died crank no start fuel pressure did'nt drop. upper fuel bowl emty turnd key on fuel filled up then started drove back to shop performed balloon test no pressure removed #1 inj copper o-ring looks good any advice.thank you very much Jeff Baranek 559-784-6000 Clevenger Ford Hey guy's Jeff just p/m'd me this I think this is more of you guy's diag. than parts. He needs some help /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george1 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 flatbed? check inlet restiction had one took 7hrs run time to show up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I think Jeff is going to have to apply his powers of observation to this one.... It certainly smells like a cup or sealin washer issue.... especially if the injectors drop out one at a time in a progressive fashion. The cup/washer route is only one of the possible scenes... Could be that setting up for the balloon test is allowing things to "normalize". Suggestion... when the truck dies and the secondary filter bowl is empty... fill it with clean fuel immediately and crank the engine (either with the starter feed or with the fuel pump disabled) looking for bubbles in the filter bowl. I can't remember who posted this idea, but it is SWEET. It's quick, we already know what side is affected and we can avoid some of the changes that a hot soak might induce. Interesting that #3 is missing from his code list.... this is usually the first one to see concerns.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Jim, this dropping of cylinders is very familiar to me now and it seems to be a pattern that parallels the rusty aft-axle fuel tank rusting repairs I have been seeing. I have literally watched injectors drop out one by one until the engine wont run while monitoring Power Balance in the shop... with fuel pressure. Two things he could do with relation to the empty primary fuel filter housing is monitor fuel pressure while driving around - I have seen fuel tank debris pile up at the pick up screen that takes a while of driving to plug the screen OR if he has easy access to the top of the fuel tank, remove the pick up and sender and inspect the tank for debris. With many of these trucks we are also replacing multiple injectors that have failed as a result of the fuel pressure loss, two or thee received a full set. Oddly, a few only required one bank of injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff baranek Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 it has a midship plastic tank. it is clean inside Ilooked before new sender was installed pressure never dropped below 50psi when it died Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 yes ALL 4 injectors should be replaced, more than likely it stumbles, and the secondary fuel filter ishalfempty. I Had a truck that ran in mystall for 30min beautifully, then i test drove itandafter 10minutes Bank 1 injectorscut out and it shut off. Culprit.. Fuel pump going to30psi above 2000rpm. Injectorswe toast too. # 7 was the first to go..then #3, then #5 /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 it has a midship plastic tank. it is clean inside Ilooked before new sender was installed pressure never dropped below 50psi when it died Well, that eliminates that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 It doesn't eliminate the fact that the injectors are most likely all pooched. Combustion chamber gasses are most likely entering the fuel rail through whichever bad injector it is and causing the stall due to the void of fuel in the rail. Also make sure to work the hell out of that fuel pump with a fuel pressure guage aboard to try to find the root cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff baranek Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Pulled #1,3,5,7 injs all look good.So I pulled #2,4,6,8 they also look good I think I will replace 1,3,5,7 and reseal the other ones. Too bad I didn't find a failed one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 Jeff,Don't change them yet. This one almost smells like a IDM(FICM) have you tried swapping it out with a known good one(not off of the parts shelf)from a running truck? Also have you checked the p/m's on this truck? How old is the oil or is it low that you might run a low pressure? You stated that it has run out of fuel...H/P pump or ICP? You have run the fuel pressure and it looks good, I think it's something else...Branch tube??? Or the gammut of updated parts for the 6.0's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff baranek Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 today I found tsb06-13-03 COMBUSTION GAS ENTERING THE FUEL SYSTEM Inert combustion gas in an injector can cause a random misfire in one or many cylinders. Combustion gas may leak past the injector's needle and seat, or the copper combustion seal. Once the combustion gas enters the fuel rail in the cylinder head, it then distributes to other injectors, typically on the same bank. To diagnose for combustion gas entering the fuel system: Remove outlet fuel lines from the fuel filter housing on top of engine. Install a balloon over each fuel line with a zip tie. Disable the fuel pump and fuel injection control module (FICM) relays. Crank engine and watch for compression pulses in the balloon. For each line where compression pulses are evident, remove all but one (1) of the glow plugs from the affected cylinder head(s). Crank engine and watch again for compression pulses. Remove the glow plug and transfer it to the next cylinder in the head and repeat Step 6. For each cylinder where compression pulses are evident remove injector(s) and inspect copper gasket and lower O-ring, replace if necessary. If gasket(s) and O-ring(s) are OK replace injector(s). Retest to confirm repair. can the needle and seat be tested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff baranek Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Checked fuel pressure top housing 40 psi then #1,5,7 injs dropping out. talked to ford hotline said need to fix fuel pressure first possable fuel pump,restriction in tank,or fuel regulater in upper fuel housing bypassing fuel,So I replaced pump ,ck fuel reg.signs of wear ordered new one, cleaned and reassembeled, then I put 3 gals fuel in bucket dropped in old sender and ran fuel lines to fuel pump started truck watched fuel returning to fuel supply had allot of airrated fuel. I don't think is normal I called hotline they said it is probably normal ck another truck to compare.I had this feeling to reck lower filter again loosened cap seemed real easy to remove looked at o-ring on cap it looks small in diameter went to parts they have replacment motorcraft filter kits in a generic white box, found old motorcraft box looked at o-ring meassured od it is 0.023 bigger then the generic one,re-installed cap with larger o-ring started truck air bubbles started to dissapeer it is now looking like normal fuel flow. I've been fighting this thing for two weeks now,caused air to bypass small diameter o-ring. thanks for all youre help Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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