The plugged egr cooler test?

[Mekanik]

At this new shop I work at(I've been here since mid November), the guys are testing for a clogged egr cooler by seeing if the truck will run with the egr valve removed. When I first heard f this I was a little confused. I start almost every truck that I test for a leaking egr cooler and they all run. I have tried this 3 times since I started working here. The first one was going to get a egr cooler anyways because it was leaking. It ran fine. It was an early build, 2004 I think.

The second started and stalled, but it would barely run with the egr valve in place and had a few bad injectors. It was either 2005 or 2006.

The third one was today. It ran fine, but had a p1335. It was a 2005. It ran with the valve out and I could feel plenty of exaust gas from the port in the manifold.

Personally I don't think it is an accurate test. Theese guys say that an engineer told them this is how to test a egr cooler for being clogged and I would love to hear what you guys think of this. Thanks in advance.

[Tony302600]

trust ure instincts. Personally that test is retarded in my opinion. If that was a valid test then at least hotline would back it up.

[GregH]

I regularly run these engines without the EGR valve in place. It's not a test, but more to clear out the EGR cooler of carbon that will break away easily.

 

I pull the valve, start the engine, and run it up to redline. Hold it there for a few seconds and then shut it off. I always find a significant amount of carbon scattered about after that.

 

So far I haven't had any carbon catch in a valve seat or anything stupid like that. But I only so that on the trucks that are in warranty, just to cover myself..

[Alex Bruene]

I do the same thing Greg does. I was first told to do that by a hotline engineer to try and blow the crap out.

[Mekanik]

Me too. Just like I used to do on 88-92? Town Car, Grand Marquis 5.0l when I would replace the egr valve.

On 6.0ls I do it after I scrape the carbon from the intake and after pressure testing the cooling system with the egr valve out with the back end jacked up to see if there was any coolant that leaked from the cooler.

When I asked about this test, they say they heard it from either a hotline engineer or an International engineer. Either this test is bogus or I have let a lot of 6.0ls leave with clogged egr coolers. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

This post brings back memories of a time that we cleaned intakes and egr's. Way back when...1990 Accords had a real problem with intakes and egr's with carbon build ups. BG came out with a Cleaning system that actually worked very well with very few come backs. Maybe Ford/Navistar needs to look at this repair, might work, might not...But I think it may worth looking into. What's the worst that could happen, you spend about a hour to clean the egr system, if it doesn't work then you start tearing it apart and replacing components of the system. Less time than tear down and fixing as you go.

[jaysonfordtech]

BG does make a kit for cleaning the intake/egr system on the 6.0. I have heard it works well, but it is very expensive and time consuming. I personally shy away from the snake oil for the most part.

[Tony302600]

Does it work.....omg does it work...cleans out the whole system like u just put in new parts. We charge $400 i think for it. We wont sell them because we need to find the cause of the coking. Just doing the service should only last 6months if the coking doesnt get taken care of it. I argued with the Head BG guy, about needing to find out the cause of the coking before just performing the service.... Then he told me "this is what causes coking and this is how our product fixes it" bullcrap.

[Rickster42]

The only time I tried doing that was a few years back. Pulled the egr valve and cranked it over... oops no compression. Just my friggin luck. That carbon went straight under the valves like steel to a magnet...

Never tried it again - I just use a vacuum now.

Other details are fuzzy, but I do remember it was a Friday afternoon waiter. S/A almost started to cry when informed of bad news. 5th wheeler waiting outside fully loaded with the prerequisite amount of kids in it...hehe

Seem to remember some crying as I went home for the weekend.

[Mekanik]

You mean it didn't clear up? That has happened a bunch of times to me. It will crank, stall and then sounds like no compression. Then it will fire up, run rough and then clear up in a couple seconds. Thats why I wait to clear the dtcs until after the engine has run for a little bit.

[Jim Warman]

Same experience here, James.... When I get that, I simply go outside for a smoke.. when I get back, it firs right up.

[DwayneGorniak]

Guys, be careful with removing the EGR valve and firing it up. I do it my self, but only when the engine is hot. These engines don't like to start when they are dead cold with the valve out and that is when you suck the carbon into the valves. Compression is low when cold. But everyone I have done has started in the end a nd cleared up.

 

So James, if you want to screw with your coworkers minds, tell them to try it cold and see if their cooler is plugged then. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hahaha.gif

[Mekanik]

So I guess that this test is offically bogus. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif

[DieselD]

I agree thats not a very good test if you can even call it at test. Ive had some trucks run and some that do not with the valve out. I do enjoy the smoke show and coworks telling me Im number 1 after that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif

[jared_bortel]

I can personally atest that the bg egr cleaner is junk. Ive used it on a truck that we tried to clean the intake out with it. All that service did was turn hard carbon build up in soft mushy sludge like crap. I did however notice that the oil flush that comes with it is phenomanal. The way that that flush works it cleans the egr valve ports on the intake side, and is supposed to clean the intake from cold side cac elbow with these little adaptors and injection nozzle that looks like the same one they have for defogs. You do the whole process with the motor running and to my knowledge air flow through that motor is never from intake into egr cooler. The rep that came here blew alot of smoke up our asses and after needing to tear it apart and replace manifold due to coking I had pretty well lost faith in the theory on this one.

[Tony302600]

Well this test (removing egr valve and start truck to see if it run's) seems to be a valid test. (rolling eyes) My friend's truck was bucking and jerking like crazy when i was with him on a saturday after EGR and turbo replacement a week ago. He took it to the dealer by him (i was lucky enough to be present) their "honored" diesel tech looked at it. He brought us over, showed us the uncoked EGR valve in his hand, started the truck up without the egr valve in it, told us that since the truck is running without the egr valve in it, that the EGR cooler is plugged causing his concern.

 

I asked him, isn't there a test to make sure the valve isn't bad, i heard that the valve's go bad, he said...no need for it since this test show's the problem.

 

I had to bite my lip and act like a normal customer. The truck never idle's, never has had a coked up EGR valve, run's awesome fuel, does everything I tell him. We will see what happens.

[Mekanik]

Tony, What do you think the problem is with this truck? Do you really hink its bucking and jerking because its not getting enough egr flow?

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I really think your a good tech, but how come all of your friends take thier trucks to other dealers to get them fixed?

[Tony302600]

A. My dealership is 25minutes south of me. My buddy lives 15minutes north of me. I'm not going to make him drive 40minutes to get his truck worked on when he has a dealership 5minutes away from him.

 

B. I know he doesn't get the best quality fuel, and that's why I told him to get the cetane booster to help.

 

C. Our diesel is high and we're always busy. When we're slow i tell him i'll look at it here, but he's been taking it to the dealer by him for convenience.

 

D. This is the only friend I have with problem's on his 6.0 under warranty. The others follow what i rec. to them Maintainence wise or are out of warranty. If i bring someone's truck in and a tech find's out, then someone say's something and then the manager is asking me a million questions.

 

I was waiting for someone to ask me about this LoL. I'm not trying to bash this dealership, i remembered this post and just added to it.

[Tony302600]

Tony, What do you think the problem is with this truck? Do you really hink its bucking and jerking because its not getting enough egr flow?

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I really think your a good tech, but how come all of your friends take thier trucks to other dealers to get them fixed?

He's now only briging it to me after finding a bunch of scraches on his truck and a oil leak... Ya happy. LoL. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boxing.gif