jared_bortel Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 2003 6.0 OVERHEAT AND LACK OF POWER P0404 P0401 FOUND TO HAVE COOLERS LEAKING TURBO TURBINE SIDE CORRODED AND EGR VALVE PLUGGED REPLACED THE ABOVE GO TO DRIVE IT HAS NO POWER STRANGE ICP READINGS REPLACED ICP AND CONNECTOR AND IPR EGR VALVE NOT RIGHT REPLACED SPW SWAPPED MAP AND MAF FROM ANOTHER TRUCK HAS LATEST PROGRAM AVAILABLE TRUCK IS MANUAL TRANS INTAKE NOT PLUGGED CHECKED WHEN DOING COOLERS MY PROBLEM IS RELATED TO LOW BOOST 16PSI MAX AND THATS WORKING IT VEHICLE WILL MAKE 25-28 WITH SOMEONE WORKING VGT NO INTAKE OR EXH LEAKS BUT IT FEELS LIKE IM MISSING AN INPUT LOAD IS 65-70% WITH 99.5% APP 2000 RPM IN SECOND GEAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 What's the engine oil level? Is it overfilled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 What about fuel pressure....i've fixed gobs of them with just fuel filters and they had wicked lack of power with boost showing 22+ CHECK FUEL PRESSURE !!!!!! DTC's? like a 132b? thats the year with the VGT learn stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared_bortel Posted February 28, 2008 Author Share Posted February 28, 2008 ALL THE NORMAL B/S HAS BEEN CHECKED FUEL PRESSURE ETC NO CODES PRESENT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 Did your icp readings return to normal after your repairs? What is your IPR % under load? It sounds like you've checked a lot already, but I'm wondering if maybe you have a weak hp pump, or maybe an exhaust restriction. You may want to disconnect the exhaust downpipe from the cat and drive it. Also look in your old turbo to make sure the turbine wheel is still in it and not lodged in the downpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 28, 2008 Share Posted February 28, 2008 CAC restriction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 What about your vgt learn pid? icp pressure and voltage when this problem is acting up? You still have good fuel pressure under load at wide open throttle right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 I just had a 05 with 5,000miles on it with a weak HP pump causing craploads of problems with trans shifting, too hesitation, lack power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared_bortel Posted February 29, 2008 Author Share Posted February 29, 2008 I HAVE ROLLED A GOLF BALL DOWN THE DOWN PIPE NO OLD TURBO WHEEL DRIVEN WITHOUT CAT IN PLACE NO IMPROVEMENT 55+PSI AT WOT UNDER LOAD HAD SOMEWHAT STRANGE IPR AFTER REPLACEMENT JUST HAD STIRRED UP SOME STUFF AND PLUGGED IT REPLACED WITH NEW ICP AND CONNECTOR ALREADY REPLACED ROUGHLY 23% IPR 670PSI AT IDLE AND LIKE I SAID COMMAND VGT AND IT GOES RIGHT UP TO 28 PSI BOOST VERIFIED WITH GAUGE WHICH SHOULD RULE OUT INTAKE EXHAUST AND CAC PROBLEMS BUT IT GETS BETTER VEHICLE HAS EGRTP HOUSING WITH NO PLATE IN IT HARNESS MATCHES UP TO MOTOR AND SENSOR ON HOUSING BUT NO PURPOSE TO ANY OF IT AND PER HOTLINE EGRTP HOUSING SHOULD NOT EVEN BE INSTALLED AND WAS NEVER EQUIPED ON VEHICLE ITS BUILT 03/03 AND IS MANUAL TRANS BUT WILL RUN WELL ON AN 04 AUTO TRANS PCM????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Another thought...try swapping VGT control valve from a known good vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 2003 6.0 OVERHEAT AND LACK OF POWER Jared... I don't mean this in a bad way so just take this as it comes.... I have found that when things are getting this frustrating, it can usually be traced to overlooking something basic... I am guilty of it to this day.... even after all these years of kicking myself in the @ss. What would I do? I'd start with the performance diag sheet from the PC/ED... this time, don't assume anything (none of us tick off some of those boxes without actually doing them, right?). If that doesn't do it, make a couple of recordings on your IDS and post them here... If you need help with that, just ask and we can deliver.... You could probably just start with the default datalogger PID selection and we can fine tune that as we go. This ain't InFord and it ain't FMC dealer.... This much better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I HAVE ROLLED A GOLF BALL DOWN THE DOWN PIPE NO OLD TURBO WHEEL DRIVEN WITHOUT CAT IN PLACE NO IMPROVEMENT 55+PSI AT WOT UNDER LOAD HAD SOMEWHAT STRANGE IPR AFTER REPLACEMENT JUST HAD STIRRED UP SOME STUFF AND PLUGGED IT REPLACED WITH NEW ICP AND CONNECTOR ALREADY REPLACED ROUGHLY 23% IPR 670PSI AT IDLE AND LIKE I SAID COMMAND VGT AND IT GOES RIGHT UP TO 28 PSI BOOST VERIFIED WITH GAUGE WHICH SHOULD RULE OUT INTAKE EXHAUST AND CAC PROBLEMS BUT IT GETS BETTER VEHICLE HAS EGRTP HOUSING WITH NO PLATE IN IT HARNESS MATCHES UP TO MOTOR AND SENSOR ON HOUSING BUT NO PURPOSE TO ANY OF IT AND PER HOTLINE EGRTP HOUSING SHOULD NOT EVEN BE INSTALLED AND WAS NEVER EQUIPED ON VEHICLE ITS BUILT 03/03 AND IS MANUAL TRANS BUT WILL RUN WELL ON AN 04 AUTO TRANS PCM????? I would appreciate it if you would shut off the caps lock and try some puncuation...please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 This may sound kind of stupid...Have you checked the TPS on this truck??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Larry means APP (accelerator pedal position sensor). TPS on an 03 - though present, is not used by the pcm until the 04.25 engines that actually have a throttle plate. I doubt the APP is the problem though because it consists of 3 redundant signals, and each one is quick to set trouble codes if a fault occurs. Also, if 2 or more of it's 3 internal sensors fail in coherency the truck will default to idle anyway, and that is not your symptom. I just was on the fmc message boards and there is a thread about a rash of defective reman turbo CRHM's which have binding unison ring rotating pivots. Did you replace the entire turbo or do the CHRM replacement per the new tsb? One idea for a test that I used to do...Remove the snap ring and cap to gain access to the internal turbo piston. Use a magnet to see if you can slide the piston back and forth relatively easily without binding. You can do this in the vehicle, and you should get approximately 1.5 inches of travel. This is the kind of "outside the box" testing that is sometimes necessary, but I agree with Jim, go through the proper Ford testing procedure first, sometimes "outside the box" thinking isn't necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Did you reset KAM, and perform a koeo self test? On some of these vehicles that is neccesary for the egr valve to be calibrated to the pcm. Did you do the VGT re-learn procedure? Do you still have dtcs? KOEO, KOER, Continious? Don't worry about the egr throttle plate that is not there. All of the 03s were like that. I agree with Jeff E. about the magnet test. I used to use that test a lot when Ford endorsed it. I also totally agree with Jim, that you need to start over and follow that diag. sheet very carefully. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Larry means APP (accelerator pedal position sensor). TPS on an 03 - though present, is not used by the pcm until the 04.25 engines that actually have a throttle plate. I doubt the APP is the problem though because it consists of 3 redundant signals, and each one is quick to set trouble codes if a fault occurs. Also, if 2 or more of it's 3 internal sensors fail in coherency the truck will default to idle anyway, and that is not your symptom. I just was on the fmc message boards and there is a thread about a rash of defective reman turbo CRHM's which have binding unison ring rotating pivots. Did you replace the entire turbo or do the CHRM replacement per the new tsb? One idea for a test that I used to do...Remove the snap ring and cap to gain access to the internal turbo piston. Use a magnet to see if you can slide the piston back and forth relatively easily without binding. You can do this in the vehicle, and you should get approximately 1.5 inches of travel. This is the kind of "outside the box" testing that is sometimes necessary, but I agree with Jim, go through the proper Ford testing procedure first, sometimes "outside the box" thinking isn't necessary. Another test is using a spring scale (like for weighing fish) hooked to the piston inside the turbo. Over 15lbs pull, turbo is NG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared_bortel Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thanks for all the advice. In response to all the suggestions I've repeated the whole diag sheet with my shop foreman present, no solutions there. Verified app a few times over reads throughout range and voltage/position pids. I appreciate the advice as far as turbos are concerned. First off I replaced the entire turbo not a chra also like i stated previously turbo will make boost when commanded. Theroretically being able to control turbo and make 28psi should eliminate problems with turbo, vgt solenoid, intake, or exhuast problems. Next up truck runs well with a swapped out pcm from an 04 automatic (truck is an 03 manual). Load pid is low reading approx 65-70% at WOT in a second gear pull approx 2000 rpm only making 14-16psi. Load being an inferred value should point me towards input sensors but Ive verified icp, map, baro, and maf. Ive blown out pcm and reprogramed as blank using tear tag. Ive also uplugged ebp and test drove with no avail. This customer is starting to get upset and Ive been told pcm is on backorder until at least 3/17. If anyone can offer me additional info please do. Thank you all for your help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The pcm from the 04, is is an early build? If you put a different pcm in it and its fixed, then I would have to say that you have a bad pcm. I can't think of what would be different from automatic to manual, except the tcm of course. If there was something different, I don't see how it would mask another problem that the truck has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 A couple of things I didn't see mentioned. First I would check the MAF sensor. You said you swapped it but maybe the one you swapped with was bad too-just that the other truck was a later calibration and wasn't inferred EBP calibration. The other thing would be check fuel level input pid. At ultra low fuel levels some of the calibrations would derate the power and it's not something the PCED tells you to check. Lastly I would check all the temperature and pressure pids for correlation when cold. Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared_bortel Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Im pretty much at the point where I have to replace pcm. Problem is its on backorder for another 2 weeks and im roughly 2-3 weeks into this and the customers getting pissed. Pressure and temp pids are all where they should after overnight cold soak I'm roughly 75-80 degrees in south florida and at atmosphere on pressure pids koeo, truck also has well over a quarter tank of fuel. I'm just wondering if anyone has a miracle for me short of waiting for a pcm thats on intergalactic backorder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared_bortel Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Well Ive finally fixed this pile. We ran out of options and finally swagged a pcm at it and low and behold we had accurate load pids and full boost. Thanks for all of your suggestions I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I'm glad to hear that that piece of junk is fixed. I usally loose my ass when I have a bad pcm. Lets face it, It's usally the last option when you have checked and double checked everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Man, I hope this ain't the truck you were working on. http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f23/new-egr-turbo-pcm-what-now-192505/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 what is with that web site,it is like every post is about trashing the dealer they took it to for work,my dealer did this, my dealer did that,my dealer will not commit fraud so I can get arp head studs. I don't know, it just seems unfair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 This happened to me on a 7.3 EXACT SAME THING. Fought for a week with manager saying it was a PCM, hotline said no way... i ordered one behind his back and WALA, it was fixed... Owner said truck never ran better. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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