kevin phillips Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 have a 04 explorer with a reoccuring p0340, cam sensor and pcm have been replaced.checked wiring and sensor per shop manual and cannot see any faults but ids shows fault on pid {cmp fault} after it starts up and after 3 times raising the rpm's on the vehicle it resets the code.any ideas? or things you guys have seen that would help. thanks,kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Try unplugging the alternator, of course, and see if that is causing the issue. You might need to be on the safe side and pull both the regulator connection and the output connection. If the problem is still there, I would make an overlay harness (I've still got one I made years ago for another vehicle) for the CMP - shield and all - and install it. Since you can make it fault out pretty much on demand, then just lay the fabricated harness in there all quick and dirty. You might also consider pulling all the non-essential VREF sensors - DPFE, FTP, etc. Scoping the CMP and CKP lines may also yield some insight... Just don't get frustrated by the problem. These P0340's can be a real bitch, and don't let anyone breathe down your neck. Don't forget that the PCM is looking for a very small signal during a very short window. If anything screws up the sequence, the PCM will fault out... Keep us posted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted March 13, 2008 Author Share Posted March 13, 2008 I pulled the alternator wires still the same unhooked all the sensors i could access and unplug easy and the coil packs one at a time, no help and the problem is still there.I am in the process of doing a overlay now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Check valve timing. I know it's a bitch but I think it's time to pull the front cover to have a look/see. That's the ONLY other reason for a P0340 to set. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 overlayed wires still the same going to tear it down and check the cam and timing.its going to be something crazy like that.i don't know how i get these problem vehicles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Amazing as it may sound, these engines will run even if they are off by one tooth. Just out of curiosity, was any engine work done on this recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 This thing has a 4.6 right? Does it have a lot of miles on it? I have seen older 4.6s with a lot of miles that have stretched timing chains. I think the way to tell is if the tensioners are all the way out. It sounds like you checked everything, but RF can be a big problem causing these DTCs. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slim Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I think you're on the right track and that's what I would be doing but also keep in mind the PCM uses the CKP signal to determine if the CMP signal is off. A small CKP problem doesn't give driveability problems or set a code but may cause a CMP code to set. Look out for a loose balancer bolt causing the crankshaft wheel to wobble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted March 14, 2008 Author Share Posted March 14, 2008 yes it's a 4.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted March 16, 2008 Author Share Posted March 16, 2008 Timing chain guide broken on drivers side around hold down bolt.Ordered parts but it will fix it, thanks for the help.I have never seen that before on a 4.6.I do know i lost my ass hunting on it though. LESSON LEARNED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Timing chain guide broken on drivers side around hold down bolt.Ordered parts but it will fix it, thanks for the help.I have never seen that before on a 4.6.I do know i lost my ass hunting on it though. LESSON LEARNED!That happened to me on an '03 Aviator where the driver side cylinder head was replaced, and shortly after, I too was hunting for a P0340 fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted March 18, 2008 Author Share Posted March 18, 2008 Yea, i spent alot of time hunting for interference when it was a base engine concern .it's fixed now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 I have been told that a 4.6 with a chain one tooth off will run rough at idle and ok down the road, two teeth off and it will run rough all the time, three teeth off and stuff starts to get bent and broke. A quick non intrusive way to check is to monitor fuel trims, they will be very diferent from bank to bank. And unless it came from the factory in this condition there is usually evidence that the engine has been apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 A plugged cat. converter and valve timing are the onlt 2 things that will cause opposing fuel trims. I'm glad to hear its fixed. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Quote: I'm glad to hear its fixed. Plus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidonenko Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I had this same problem for a few weeks on an explorer. I even pulled the valve cover off and everything looked ok. After 2 engineers coming out and using the scope and shielding the harness and a slew of other things the engineer said he read a report of 1 truck in kaliforia arounf the same milage with a timing chain that had streached. I pulled the timing cover and shure enough the timing chain guide had cracked around the upper bolt and fell against the head. It will not cause any rough running or engine noise at all. It is just enough slack to allow the tensioner to extend and the chain to slack ever so slightly. I shure wish we had access to the reports or engineers that would read through them (or something easier to them to deal with if the system in place sucks donkey nuts that bad) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 This is one place an Oh silly scope would work to our benefit... I found a bent cam phaser with the scope not too long ago. Play with your toys, kiddees.... Play with your toys.... IDS with VMM is going to ring the cash register for near $12G in Canader.... If our boss is willing to spend this kind of faloose for us... the least we can do is get his moneys worth out of it. A few of us "dabble" with the scope and can help to a point.... I'm sure that Bruce is quite prepared to dazzle us with his expertise (and, I might add, quite rightly so) in helping with some issues. Remembering that he does have a business to run and an income to make. (Feel like you just "volunteered", Bruce?) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Sound High tech? Damned right.... The friggin' radio in a new truck has more computing power than anything that put men on the moon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 This is one place an Oh silly scope would work to our benefit... I found a bent cam phaser with the scope not too long ago. Play with your toys, kiddees.... Play with your toys.... IDS with VMM is going to ring the cash register for near $12G in Canader.... If our boss is willing to spend this kind of faloose for us... the least we can do is get his moneys worth out of it. A few of us "dabble" with the scope and can help to a point.... I'm sure that Bruce is quite prepared to dazzle us with his expertise (and, I might add, quite rightly so) in helping with some issues. Remembering that he does have a business to run and an income to make. (Feel like you just "volunteered", Bruce?) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Sound High tech? Damned right.... The friggin' radio in a new truck has more computing power than anything that put men on the moon.... That's nice Jim. But in our shop, our VMM cannot be used because we're missing the cable that hooks up between the VMM and the laptop. Our PDS cable has also decided to quit working and our circus manager refuses to purchase the said items. The exhaust in my bay is useless. When running a vehicle in the shop, the hose just blows off immediately when you attempt to hook it up to the pipe. A VDR? Forget about it! I've had problematic vehicles where having a VDR would've helped, but again no money! Sorry for the rant and hijack. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 A VDR? Forget about it! I've had problematic vehicles where having a VDR would've helped, but again no money! Sorry for the rant and hijack. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif I just got a flyer from my mac tools guy it had a universal VDR that connects to a PC for $79.99 USD • Records and stores the entire OBDII data stream in a 24-hour continuous loop • Captures DTC and Freeze Frame data • Simply plug the unit into the OBDII data link connector and let the customer do the test driving for you • Use the intuitive client software, a free download at http://www.crecorder.com to retrieve the information needed to diagnose the problem # ET3010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 That's nice Jim. But in our shop, our VMM cannot be used because we're missing the cable that hooks up between the VMM and the laptop. Our PDS cable has also decided to quit working and our circus manager refuses to purchase the said items. The exhaust in my bay is useless. When running a vehicle in the shop, the hose just blows off immediately when you attempt to hook it up to the pipe. A VDR? Forget about it! I've had problematic vehicles where having a VDR would've helped, but again no money! Sorry for the rant and hijack. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif I feel for you, Mike.... In the past, I've been scorned for buying stuff for the shop.... but it is easier to gain forgiveness than it is permission. My latest SM is an ex-tech and he feels the way to a better bonus is better productivity... Having the tools for the job and (more importantly) using them. We both know that it can get gnarly when a tech "plays" with a tool... with no intention of learning how to use it properly (the scope and DMM come to mind real quick)... effectively wasting time until he breaks something. Then he can call the tool a useless POS and the powers that be wont fix it.... Even though they're rpicey, I keep one spare VCM to laptop cable and I reinforced the ones in service... I see someone misusing or abusing a tool - I will be in dutch with the DP for uttering statements he is trying to keep me from uttering (he's right.... but so am I...). Anyway... I digress (no surprise there). But the fact of the matter is that these are tools we desparately need with todays technology... and we need to learn to use them effectively... And management NEEDS to realize this and allow us the tools and the training required... I feel that Ford should offer one or two classrooms dedicated to the VMM... along with some more specific WBTs to help fine tune skills. Look at one of Bruces latest CMP/CKP traces... There's a correlation between the CMP pulse and the missing tooth on the CKP pulse that the PCM is looking for. How many longer than needed loose trigger wheel diags could have been done in a fraction of the time using this stuff? You may have a battle ahead of you.... you will need to be able to demonstrate the need for the tools and the cost effectiveness of using them. Some of us here can likely give you some ammunition for that.... But it's going to be up to you and your fellow techs to ensure that this stuff isn't going to have the appearance of being expensive dust collectors.... OTOH, we are looking for more techs... diuesel experience a definite asset (did I mention my flat rate guys just got a $2 raise? $40/hour if they meet the bonus...). Think, Mikey... two IDSs, technology almost out the ying.... and ME /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif (and you could let me know what they're saying on InFord). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Originally Posted By: mchan68 A VDR? Forget about it! I've had problematic vehicles where having a VDR would've helped, but again no money! Sorry for the rant and hijack. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif I just got a flier from my mac tools guy it had a universal VDR that connects to a PC for $79.99 USD • Records and stores the entire OBDII data stream in a 24-hour continuous loop • Captures DTC and Freeze Frame data • Simply plug the unit into the OBDII data link connector and let the customer do the test driving for you • Use the intuitive client software, a free download at http://www.crecorder.com to retrieve the information needed to diagnose the problem # ET3010 Nice find. I thought I saw that in the MAC flier. For $79 I would consider that for my toolbox but I want to know how it works for our diesels first. I recall being told that the VDR is no longer available and that was a year ago. Too bad. It's a very useful component to IDS and it is upgradeable as we saw when IDS came out. If Ford was considering a replacement model I would understand but to not have any more built? Thats just silly! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hahaha.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ford.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I "think" the CR Recorder records OBD2 generic, and that's all. If you think it's going to compare with the VDR/IDS, it's not. They were supposed to give me one of those to demo, but so far I haven't seen it. I'll look into it a bit further. I know one possible use would be to record your teenager's driving habits- TPS, VSS, and RPM, etc. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I asked my MAC guy for one and was told that he ordered 5 pieces when the flyer came out, and sold out at his first few stops and would order me one. For just $80.00 I'm going to buy one for myself even if I never use it in a customers vehicle I think it will be good just to get more seat time reading graphs at my leisure(sitting home on the couch)....right Gramps?? I have the misfortune of recently acquiring a new "parts and service dept director" (Flush pusher) The last three dealerships he worked for are now closed, but it had nothing to do with him? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif I have tried to play nice but I really just don't like him. so the last place I want to be is at the shop on my time "playing with my toys" I might be time to move my wagons north.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Quote: might be time to move my wagons north.. Don't do it, Jim will see you coming and have you for lunch!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 Launch is sending me a free CRecorder for a demo. If you're on the fence, sit tight for a couple of weeks until I have a chance to try it out. I may or may not get it before Anthony and I leave for a long road trip Thursday. Louisville for the Truck Show, then teach in Grand Rapids, Seattle, and Spokane.....(Steve?) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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