Combustion gas passing through pintle?

[snw blue by you]

'05 E450 missing on bank 1.

 

Power balance shows basically bank 1 inop, with 2 and 6 intermittently dropping off.

 

Heads were replaced approx 3 yrs ago in Idaho due to lot rot.

 

52 psi @ idle, can not drive, performed balloon test, failed bank 1, bank 2 ok.

 

Spoke w/ hotline, they recomended replacement of bank 1 injectors and retest. I did remind them this is a school bus.

 

Remove injectors and no damage. Hotline said it was possible to have the gases travel through the pintle due to a weak spring.

 

Ok, I'll bite, however, how likely? Has anyone seen this before?

 

In the past anytime I had failed a balloon test I found burned o-rings and copper washers.

 

BTW, cups appear ok as well.

[Keith Browning]

This is not a fairy tale. As a matter of fact, there are several topics that we discussed this but this one is probably the best of them all as there are several methods of diagnosing combustion leaks at the injectors -

 

CLICK HERE!

[snw blue by you]

Thanks Keith!

 

As a result of reading that thread I am going to check the banjo bolt for bank 1.

 

Something caused an injector to fail I just don't know what, and I'm sure I'm not getting the whole story but I'm sure it goes

something like this.

 

The bus began to run rough as an injector began to fail but "Ms Dorothy Harris" blew it off as a damn diesel and continued to drive it until it got so bad that it would not run.

She then told the district maint/mechanic that "It just started to run like crap"

"It was fine until today"

 

So as a result I get "I dunno, just started running like crap"

 

Although it does not look like it, the filters were just replaced.

 

Again, thanks.

[Mekanik]

I ran into this problem on a f series. Replaced the whole bank and it was fine. I never really did see any concrete evidence though.

[Tony302600]

We are on warranty arrest because our dealership FIXED all the banks of injector's. Other dealer's were just throwing one in at a time til the customer got pissed, cameto us, we diag'ed it the right way, replaced the whole bank and the weak fuel pump.

 

Then the warranty nazi's bitch to us because we are highest in the area for diesel repair.

[Keith Browning]

Then the warranty Nazi's bitch to us because we are highest in the area for diesel repair.

Same here. You know you are doing the right thing. Document all of your diagnostics, contacts and repairs and they cant do anything. When they get in your face you call them on it with proper diagnostics and documentation. The HotLine will even tell you to replace injectors on any bank where an injector has been allowing combustion gasses leak into the fuel rail and affect the other cylinders. Remember that the HotLine has no authority to authorize any repair however if you document their instructions it will stick. Record engineers names and report numbers.

[Tony302600]

Everytime I have the whole bank out because of that, i get hotline involved, give them detailed instructions on my diag. 100% of the time they write this:

 

"Combustion gases entering the fuel system will damage the other injectors on that side. To effectively repair this vehicle you MUST replace the injector's on the affected bank, and retest drive to ensure adequete fuel pressure is present at WOT."

 

 

BTW I love checking fuel pressure on the e-series...ever since i got the adapter to go on the right rear head plug. Best place to check fuel pressure.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Quote:

Combustion gas passing through pintle?

Sounds more like Jim having another one of those days!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

[snw blue by you]

I checked the injectors using the vacuum guage method as seen in the other thread, and sure enough #1 would not hold a vacuum and drew bubbles into the hose.

I like it!

 

To quote the Guinness boys "Brilliant"

 

BTW, Tony,I sent a message asking about the FP test adapter.

[GregKneupper]

i my self have had this happen to me on a 05 econoline. the truck was towed in to the shop with a complaint of knocking and dying. when i got the truck it started right up and ran perfect. pulled the fuel filters and they were brand new. only code was # 3,5,7 contribution codes. put fuel press gauge on it and no problem. i blamed it on the fuel filters not being replaced and sent it out. it came back a week later. same concern and same codes. this time it had a bad fuel knock when it came in. performed fuel press test again and was ok. performed balloon test and that passed also. when you started it cold #7 would have a dead miss and then it would start to over contribute. it was dumping too much fuel. then it would have a dead miss. once the engine was warm it would run fine. i replaced all the injectors on that bank and the truck has never been back. none were loose but that what the problem was.

[GregKneupper]

Well I never thought that I would have another truck with compression gas coming throught the pintle on an injector. But I got an 06 in today that definately had compression in the fuel system. After pulling the injectors on the lh bank I put a vacuum gauge on them and #8 would not hold vacuum. This is a great test.

[HeuiTim]

Do you guys have the ability to cut out individual cylinders?

I know nothing about these engines, is there an external fuel return out of the cylinder head?

If answers are yes, connect a sight glass in the return line and verify air in fuel, put one on the inlet to make sure it isnt getting air from fuel supply side, then cut out each cylinder one at a time starting with the injector closest to the return. When air changes you found the source. Usually works on running engines, but will work cranking if batteries are up to it. But not knowing how your engines are plumbed i'll shut up.

[Bruce Amacker]

Do you guys have the ability to cut out individual cylinders?

I know nothing about these engines, is there an external fuel return out of the cylinder head?

 

No, it is returnless from the heads.

If answers are yes, connect a sight glass in the return line and verify air in fuel, put one on the inlet to make sure it isn't getting air from fuel supply side, then cut out each cylinder one at a time starting with the injector closest to the return. When air changes you found the source. Usually works on running engines,

This test does work on a lot of engines, but not the 6.0. It has a return line from the secondary FF but not from the heads.

 

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif