6.4 Lacks Power, P2263

[ChristopherH]

I'm working on a F550 service truck right now with the complaint of lack of power and when you run the key on engine running test, it comes up with an on-demand P2263 Turbo Boost Performance DTC. I followed Pinpoint test KA for this and when leak testing the intake and exhaust, I found the gasket/seal between the turbos leaking. I was sure I had found the problem so I pulled the cab and turbos and replaced the seal (The old one looked misaligned) Retest and with smoke and 35 psi of air pressure in the intake and then the exhaust, there are no leaks. BARO, MAP, EBP, EBP tube are all good. However, it still sets the P2263 DTC KOER and during step KA7 this truck cannot produce over 3.0 PSI let alone the 4.35 PSI spec. they give for the test. A like truck doing the same KA7 test produced over 6.0 PSI during this step. The PCED then says that there is a possible high or low pressure turbo concern! The VGT is moving fine, the blades all looked great when the turbos were off, and the bearings passed the clearance test in the WSM. Has anyone else seen anything like this? Under load the truck will boost 32 psi and while that seems ok and in spec, it is still low compared to a like truck. Ford and our FSE want to disregard the code and the boost issue because its in specs, but that doesn't really satisfy me or the customer on this one.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

Haven't seen this yet, but I'm sure Bruce would be interested in this one, you may want to send him a P/M on this. I would be interested in seeing the WSM on the turbo bearing clearances. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Do you just test the side to side or are able to test the rotation clearances as well?

[george1]

pull out the ebp and see if the exhaust pipe has been drilled out /been there done that!

[ChristopherH]

Here is a copy of the turbo specs in the 2008 WSM--as you can see, they allow quite a bit of play there. Somehow .035" radial play seems like a lot. Both of my turbos on this truck checked out at far less. (Approx. .001-.002" axial and .008" radial)

 

SECTION 303-04D: Fuel Charging and Controls — Turbocharger 2008 F-Super Duty 250-550 Workshop Manual

SPECIFICATIONS Procedure revision date: 07/27/2007

 

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Printable View (85 KB)

 

General Specifications Item Specification

Turbocharger

Maximum high-pressure turbine shaft axial end play 0.20 mm (0.008 in)

Maximum high-pressure turbine shaft radial shaft movement 0.89 mm (0.035 in)

Maximum low-pressure turbine shaft axial end play 0.20 mm (0.008 in)

Maximum low-pressure turbine shaft radial shaft movement 0.89 mm (0.035 in)

[LeRoy]

I also had a p2263 code that kept repeating,would not complete KOER,followed p/p tests with no results-replaced the ebp sensor and checked pipe,retested still there,reprogrammed pcm,finally got the KOER to complete p2263 gone but then got a p0401 code egr stuck.also forgot to say that I remember a SSM stating engineering was working on a fix for p2263 and not attempt repairs.cannot remember the number.

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

0778 - 2008 F-SUPER DUTY 6.4L - MIL, P0006B, P2563, P2263 WITH R WITHOUT A DRIVABILITY COMPLAINT. SOME 2008 F-SUPER DUTY EQUIPPED WITH A 6.4L DIESEL ENGINE MAY EXHIBIT ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING DURING COLD WEATHER OPERATING TEMPERATURES AT OR BELOWFREEZING 32F (0C): DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODES(DTCS) P006B, P2563, AND OR P2263 ACCOMPANIED BY SURGE AT IDLE, SURGE AT TEADY STATE SPEED, LACK OF POWER ON ACCELERATION AND TURBOCHARGER OVERBOOST CONDITION. IF NORMAL PCED DIAGNOSTIC PROCEDURES DO NOTLEAD TO SENSOR AND/OR COMPONENT REPLACEMENT DO NOT ATTEMPT URTHER REPAIRS. ENGINEERING IS CURRENTLY INVESTIGATING. MONITOR ASIS FOR UPDATES.

[Alex Bruene]

Just like our beloved 6.0l, turbo inlet pipe leaks on 6.4l engines will also set boost codes... but if it's doing it on a self test, you should have a sufficient enough leak to notice in your bay.

[ChristopherH]

Keith--thanks for sharing that SSM. The only problem is that this truck is setting the P2263 code with the engine at operating temperature during a KOER test, and the ambient temp here is 75 degrees.

[ChristopherH]

Also, just as an update, I had our FSE out here the other day for a tech assist visit on this truck. We road tested the truck together and compared it to a like vehicle. I showed him the KOER P2263 code and we went through pinpoint test KA together (again). He called a few engineers in Detroit and they gave us a list of things to check. We pulled the EBP tube, fitting, and sensor and checked for restriction--all OK. With fabricated adapters to plug the turbo inlet and turbo exhaust outlet, we filled the intake and exhaust with smoke and applied 35 psi of air pressure to them with the same result as before--no leaks found. At this point, our FSE in consultation with some Detroit engineers have determined turbo replacement is needed. They also cannot determine which one to replace based on the test results, so they want me to replace both! They are sitting here on my bench and the truck will be here Thursday. I too hate cage nuts and body bolts (the 6.0s were easier to get the cab off!)--I'm not sure I am brave enough to attempt the swap with the cab on like its mentioned in the other posts. However it turns out, I'll be sure and let you know what happens. I sincerely appreciate everyone taking a look at this and adding your 2 cents. I'm crossing my fingers--but hey this decision was far above me.

[ChristopherH]

Just thought I would let you know that I replaced the high pressure and low pressure turbos on this problem child on Thursday per our FSE direction. After reassembling everything and retesting, now my MGP is about 2-3 psi higher during the pinpoint test KA. The customer showed up just as I finished the job and took it for a road test--he returned and said that it is fixed and that it hasn't run this good before. However, when you run a KOER test, the truck still sets a P2263 DTC even though the MGP, EBP, etc all meet the criteria for normal operation given in Pinpoint test KA! That's kind of a head scratcher for me, our FSE, and engineering. My theory is that something with the test parameters in IDS is out of whack for a F550 manual trans 6.4--hopefully that will change with new updates. The customer is happy with the performance now, so Ford doesn't want to spend any more time and warranty $ on this one--just thought I

would let you guys all know what happened.

[Keith Browning]

Excellent, glad to hear of successes. Feedback is a great way to make our posts more valuable.

 

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[Fordracer]

I was getting ready to make a post about this exact same problem until I found this one. I'm working on a F-250 that you have to be careful when pulling out into trafic because it is such a dog when taking off from a stop but it will boost 30 psi under a load once you get it going. It only produces 3.2 psi during ppt KA7 and the hotline said the same thing, "don't worry about it failing the test at least it's showing a change in boost". I'm supposed to send the hotline some recordings but they are closed this morning so I have to wait until this afternoon. Also I removed the air intake hose and the compressor fins have a black powder on them like exhaust is getting in there. Has anybody else seen this? Hopefully they will let me replace the turbos on this thing, it's like the low pressure turbo is not doing it's job.

Another thing to watch out for is when you run the exhaust restriction test. It says to monitor the EBP pid at 3800 rpm and it shouldn't go above 35 psi. Mine won't go over 3600 rpm and EBP_A is 37 psi. There is no EBP_G pid but that's what the spec is for not the EBP_A pid. The hotline says there has been some confusion with that test. Well change the test specs.