Aaron Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I recently moved away from London, and the dealer I was working at there. My mother lives just outside of London, and has her 08 Escape serviced there, because it's a little more convenient than driving 2 and a half hours to get it serviced here. She calls me this afternoon, and asks me an unusual question. She wanted to know if on her last service they would have had the wheels off, because there is LUG NUTS MISSING OFF THE CAR!! The SM tells her that they probably just 'forgot' to put them on. FORGOT! It's BLACK STEEL WHEELS, WITH CHROME LUGNUTS?! HOW DO YOU FORGET! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif YOU CAN'T SEE THERE'S ONE MISSING?! NOT THAT DIFFICULT! FUCK! /rant mode off. Sorry, had to vent. Thanks for listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Aaron, don't hold back....Let us know how you really feel.... If I was in your place and had found out about this, I would have had your Mum take it back and go straight to the D/P on this one. It's a inexcusable situation, if something had happened and your Mum lost control and killed herself or somebody else the Dealer would be liable for the accident. The S/M was wrong for not thinking of this as a big deal other than THEY FORGOT, Did I miss something here....Aren't we supposed to be licensed and responsible for the customers safety and well-being when the vehicle leaves us?????? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yeah, that is a tough one to explain or accept. We all realize that stuff like this sometimes happens even to the best of us. Sure hits home when you are on the other end when something like this happens eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I have this one guy in my shop.... he leaves closed doors open and open doors closed.... he never coils up an air hose (let alone wipe it down before dragging it into someones truck).... never cleans tools or puts them back where they belong... You get the picture.... Some of you guys might know this young fellow (to me, most everyone is young)... His name? Not Me. Young Mr. Me is a bane in my existance.... I don't know what he looks like, can't find his time card, can't fire him.... Even the best of us can "have our moments"... and we need to realize that this is part of the human condition. At the same time, we realize that we need to be ever vigilant. Ever get called away from a task? If you are installing a fastener... do you just leave it and walk away? Take it out and put it back in the tray? Say "let me torque these first"? Two ways are viable... one isn't. Still, I firmly believe that not all "techs" employed in this trade have made sound career choices. Most of what is entailed in our jobs can be learned... like an "acquired taste" (caviar... eeeewwwwwwwwww /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif ). But there are elements that cannot... Many people can "play" a musical instrument - few can "make love" to it. I "dabble" with the guitar.... Chet Atkins I'm not (the drunker you get, the better I sound). "Back in the day", a good tune up mechanic made a decent living... Dale Armstrong and Austin Coil were making 7 digits. Take a look at your entry level people... Which one is going to just flunk out, or succeed on bullshit, or succeed on success? Which one has the signs of those traits that can make a mediocre <insert job title here> into a very good one or even a great one? A wise man once said that we would all rise to a level where we would become incompetent... and be trapped there. So... WTF does this have to do with f@cking wheel nuts? It's tough to miss putting one on.... even harder to miss putting wheel nuts on more than one wheel.... It's easy to forget to torque one nut.... just as easy is forgetting to torque one wheel... Multiple nuts on multiple wheels? Houston - we have a problem (did I mention I watched the first moon landing on a black and white TV? And no, that wasn't the colour of the cabinet.). I would suggest that the "tech" relied on the "one finger torque wrench". And the nuts that went missing were the very first nuts on their respective wheels to be "tightened". Just so you know - I refuse to use torque sticks. FWIW... and you can try this at "home"..... hub-centric wheel nuts and nut-centric wheel nuts can behave differently.... Run the nuts up snug with your impact - don't let the gun rattle on them (I'll tell you why in a bit). Oh... of course you are running them on in an appropriate sequence, right? When you run the nuts up, mark your start nut... if you leave this one to be torqued last, it will amplify the effect of the experiment. With the nuts snug to the first "BUPP" on the impact, torque the wheel nuts to spec... Every last one should turn a little (I'll tell you why in a bit). Notice how little some nuts turn to gain torque. Notice how the first one or two nuts took a lot to gain torque. Now... if the nut doesn't turn at all when we torque it... we have no idea of how tight it IS... all we know is how loose it ISN'T. Are we setting the stud up for a premature failure? In the Site Hub & Member Involvement Forum, Brad made a post regarding "attention to detail". The devil dwells in the details, gents. While I hope it is commonplace for us to pay close attention to "torque critical" fasteners.... the usual practice is to watch the clock and assume "tight" is good enough. With modern assemblies, fastener torque is much more important than in the past. Nobody would ever dream of torquing a bolt the size of an injector hold down to 26 lb/ft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 My question is not in defense of the dealership, but are the nuts actually missing or did the chrome caps fall off one or more nuts??? After being removed with an impact wrench the ESCAPE, FOCUS, and Lincoln LS are common to loose chrome caps and at a glance can look like the nuts missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 A. I've forgotten to torque one wheel but realized it pulling out of my stall.... The reason.... I got pulled away to go on a 45min test drive with a customer. B. I spent 3 day's looking for 2 missing lugnuts from a truck with custom wheels. I eventually told them I couldn't find them after the job was done and have no idea what happened to them. We almost bought a new set of 32 when the customer told us "oh, those have been missing for a while" We are soo stressed with daily jobs and task's....being pulled off to do waiter's or to do something else. IT HAPPENS. Should he have seen the lugnuts missing... YES... He either thought it was never there, or just didnt give a shit. He really should of said something. If i see something missing, I go and tell the service writer, End of story. It's better to make sure, then to look like an ass when the customer say's "it was there before" Side Note: I have learned that with a Hot Temper and screaming mouth you won't get anything accomplished. I used to yell and scream at people when done wrong, but realized that wasnt the way to do something. I have been yelled at by a customer and it felt shitty even though i was in the right. Treat other's as you would like to be treated. I heard a service writer tell a customer "would you like me to come to your place of employment and start screaming and yelling even when im wrong???? causing this scene?" I can't stand customer's that yell and scream. PERIOD. SHIT HAPPENS. Miscommunication between S/A and tech, customer not giving all info, etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 I asked, and one of the nuts was missing, not just the cap. I worked across in the next stall from this guy, and I'm not going to say anything, because I can't say anything nice. Jim - you made some very valid points, good read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Quote: Just so you know - I refuse to use torque sticks. I'm curious, would you care to elaborate on that statement, just a smidge? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Me to,me to. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif I got some extra this could take a while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Jim, 6.0 injectors are 24lb/ft for the T40torx and 26lb/ft for the T45 torx(late 06-07). That is a must in the shop. I i see someone doing an injector and they dont have a torque wrench next to them, i raise hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 With as Anal as we all know he is about such things, I would have to believe what he meant by his comment - is that the variables involved in using a torque "stick"... such as the vast variances in torque provided by different impact guns, and variances in air pressure applied to them, simply doesn't cut the mustard. As such, he probably prefers an actual torque "wrench". Either that, or he just happens to be an old enough, crotchety enough, Canadian curmudgeon, - that his elbow actually clicks when when the proper torque is achieved with a breaker bar. And in his case, I would actually believe it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Speaking of being "anal" and "cutting the mustard"... At least his co-workers can be thankful that it isn't a different bodily noise that indicates the proper torque has been met. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif I suppose enough Canadian Bacon could cause erroneous readings too. What is also quite believable, is that you could probably contact the Canadian Ministry of Weights and Measures and have them pull his elbow certified calibration records for the last 20 years. It's fun to stir the pot!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/popcorn.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Torque sticks? I could only ever trust them if I was sure my air supply was rock steady... forever and forever... and that the impact I use them with is rock steady - with every set of blows matching every other set of blows. So... we're going to use torque sticks to tighten something.... and, with me in the picture, a torque wrench will be used to verify torque. I tried a set out many, many years ago... and saw enough discrepancy to make up my mind. Was I using them improperly? Doesn't matter... If they can be used improperly and create a concern - they have no business in my shop. The reason for using a torque wrench is to apply a predictable clamping force with the fastener. But there is also a great need for even clamping force... even to the point of torquing in stages to avoid any conditions that might change the shape of any parts (say a brake rotor or cylinder head). For my taste, impact tools are unpredictable enough and really have no place in assembly other than to run a fastener to contact... when we add any device that adds elasticity.... This is a trick that this old dog wont attempt to learn. Let's look at aircraft techs.... Impact wrenchs are verbotten in aircraft A&P maintenance and repair... even for disassembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Just out of curiosity, do you put a torque wrench on everything? What do you torque and what don't you torque? Differnt strokes for different folks. I like torque stick's, they are convienient (however us spell it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Uh-oh, you just opened up the rotten can of worms.... Watch out here comes Jim... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Tony... basically, I consider a fasteners role.... What's "torque critical" and what isn't. If it isn't torque critical... tightening by hand with any old wrench is good as long as you have developed the "feel". Tie rod sleeve clamps... these are torque critical and you can never do these with an impact and get predictable results. I run something like this up snug with an impact and use a torque wrench... Too often, I have seen Super Duties with one end pulled out of a tie rod or drag link sleeve... Lack of clamping force can be the only reason. Absolutely everything "inside" any assembly gets torqued... engine, trans, diff. As I get older, I find more and more fasteners that I like to final tighten with a torque wrench.... Overkill? Probably.... But modern society is getting more and more litigious. Better safe than sorry for any bolt that has the opportunity to injure or kill someone.... If worst came to worst, looking a jury in the eye and stating that these fasteners were torqued in accordance with factory directions. Every now and again, we see someone snarling about stripped out bolts - valve cover bolts, oil pan bolts.... Bolts with rounded over corners... Bolts that wont break loose... Yet we continue to depend on "ZOOOOP.... RATTLE.... RATTLE". Yes, I use torque wrenches a lot... I didn't pay all of that money for all those wrenches because I like chrome.... The devil is in the details... deciding when it is more appropriate to use a torque wrench is one of those details. No. Tony... I don't use a torque wrench on everything... but I do use a torque wrench more than most. This year marks the 40th anniversary of the first time tightened an automotive fastener in exchange for a paycheque. I guess I've tightened my fair share of fasteners in that space of time. If you see me reaching for a torque wrench... you can pretty well bet I've seen the need for it. Side benefits of using a torque wrench.... you look up a spec... and find out you've been re-using torque to yield fasteners. You look up a spec and find out those dinky little injector hold downs on a 6.4 get 28 freaking ft/lb (this is a prime example of a "torque critical" fastener). Are we to proclaim our devout professionalism and then consider that torque wrenches are for pussies? Quick - quick!!! What is the factory torque spec on those 8mm bolts holding the rear caliper on a 04ish 250/350 to the slide pins? Want to guess how many rear calipers I see in a year that are being held in place by the wheel? (FWIW, the correct answer is "one is too many"). Compare your thoughts to the spec in the manual... Modern manufacturing and assembly practices have evolved greatly over the years. Where the engineers once used several larger fasteners to accomplish a task, they are now using fewer smaller ones. This places more stress on those fasteners - correct installation procedures and tightening specifications are becoming more and more important. Anyone reading this is free to do whatever they feel comfortable with.... And I will continue to my job my way... Second last job of the day was to adjust toe and clear vision on a 350 dually. I ran the clamp bolts just snug with a 3/8ths impact and then torqued the fasteners to spec... Gawd how I squander time... must have took all of one minute from torque wrench out of box to torque wrench back in box. Sorry for the lecture.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 4, 2008 Share Posted April 4, 2008 Don't get me wrong, I know which are torque critical and which arent on job's ive done multiple times. Any job I haven't done yet get's a look see through the procedure online. The torque reading's get recorded for the torque critical bolt's. I'm anal about torqueing down 6.0 intake's, head's, HP pump's, etc etc etc. Does a F-450 front caliper anchor need to get torqued down? No, i think my 1/2 impact does an adequete job. Does the rear pinion nut on a F-550 rear end need to be torqued to 600ft/lb YES!!!! In my opninion I think torque stick's are more practical, and i'm sure a lot of you guy's are in agreeance with me (some wont admit it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Quote: Does the rear pinion nut on a F-550 rear end need to be torqued to 600ft/lb YES!!!! Other than a 1" impact what do you have that will do 600ft/lbs. The Cummins ISX head bolts are 600ft/lbs and the manual states to use the 1" impact on them for correct torque. I haven't seen a torque stick that high YET.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Tony... I don't want to get inciteful or combative or whatever else anyone could mistrue as arguing for the sake of arguing. However (I must be getting semi-famous for my "howevers"...)... over my years I have seen a vast change in society, morals, comfort levels, you name it..... This drives a lot of different things.... Let's begin with engineering... or more precisely, engineering/bean counting/weight saving. The gauge of steel used to stamp the frame pieces on my old 73 F100 was about the same gauge as they are currently producing F350 DRW frames from. The torque produced by the front disc brakes was transferred to a heavy, cast iron piece... not to a couple of 10mm bolts IN SHEAR. Whoops, my bad, you said "anchor".... more later... For my buck... torque critical bolts include caliper mounting bolts, seatbelt mounting bolts, steering components (including tie rod ends and ball joints... (can anyone here recite the correct sequence for tightening SD 4X4 ball joints? )... anything that can alter a customers life experience in a sad way. Along with other, already mentioned peices. We have fewer and smaller fasteners that we expect to do the same or more work than in previous years. Try this experiment..... Run a set of wheel nuts on a Super Duty on with your impact wrench. It will take a bit of practice to give the trigger just enough so the run ends in just one "pukka". Don't give it any more gun after that. Set your torque wrench to 165 and start with the first nut you ran and follow the exact same pattern. Fasteners that are final tightened with a garage impact will be one of two things... too tight, a catastrophic failure waiting to happen.... or too loose, and none of your customers will ever hear anything bad untils something off the truck either passes them on the highway or beats the piss out of about $12K of parts (try and get that one past warranty). "Resistance is futile.... you will be assimilated...". My son might be squandering his inheritance by the time this happens.... But there will come the day that you can understand what I'm saying..... Last... but certainly not least.... We see all manner of thread diameter/pitch combinations.... Hmmmmm, I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 Isn't there a LEGAL element to this as well Jim? I believe in Ontario, you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to torque certain stuff, like wheels? I'm not 100% on this, just seems to trigger a memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Without wanting to step into a pi$$ing match I'll offer my 2 cents on the topic of wheel nuts. I had several years in Honda and Acura dealerships where routine services were the bulk of the work, at least when the cars came in. Rack it up, yank the wheels, place them in some pattern so that you remembered how they go back on when rotated, inspect the brakes, possibly leave the wheels off until some repair is authorized. Continue with service. At some point reinstall wheels, run the nuts down with some sort of air tool (I'm sure that nobody turns all the nuts down to contact by hand), and if you are going to torque them with a torque wrench there is some chance that you are going to lower it until the tires touch the floor so that they don't spin. And that is where I have seen good techs screw up when they torque wheels by hand. It is easy to get distracted between snugging the nuts with the car in the air and torqueing on the floor. I know that for myself I use some reminder like leaving the torque wrench on the floor next to the driver side. If the nuts are actually loose it is obvious when you drive out of the shop, so the problem is when they are snug but not tightened and come loose out on the road. When you study what torqueing fasteners is you find that the purpose is to stretch the bolt a certain amount, and the amount of twisting force is simply an easily measured way to accomplish that. The torque quoted for a given fastener is for (unless recommended otherwise) new, clean, dry threads. Let's face it, after a year or 2 wheel nuts and studs are probably only dry when we pull the wheels. So that means that the twisting force measured by the carefully used torque wrench is applying less stretch than it did when new. OK, you are a consciencous technician, so you apply some lube so that Mr. Customer could get the nuts off if he ever has a flat tire. Well, unless you know how slippery that lube is and corrected the spec, you just made the stretch greater for the same torque. My conclusion is this: 1) On wheel nuts I have come to believe that a torque wrench may still not exactly torque the fasteners. 2) Even the best tech might someday have the combination of circumstances that lead to the nuts not getting the final torque. 3) If you use a torque stick you can tighten the nuts once and know that they are tight enough to stay on and not so tight to damage anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Steve, I have yet to find a shop manual procedure that includes the application of anything slippery to a wheel stud (other than Fords single drop of motor oil twixt washer and nut on hubcentric wheels). Many (if not most or all) shop manuals will tell you that wheel studs should be clean and DRY... not even the application of an antisieze compound. The whole idea behind torquing a fastener is to achieve a specific clamping force (bolt "stretch" if you will). Torquing a fastener has NEVER been about being tight enough to stay tight - although proper torque will achieve this. Indeed, over-torquing a fastener will ensure that it wont come loose..... up until the fastener fails. Here we are... a body of those that consider themselves professional... and we are resisting doing one of those things that MAKES us professional.... that sets us apart from the shadetree bunch. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Consider this... some high dollar engine builders do not use a torque wrench to tighten connecting rod bolts. Instead, they use a micrometer to measure bolt stretch. A given grade of fastener will exhibit a known amount of length change to achieve a particular clamping force. Does anyone pay attention to bolt head markings and understand what they mean? I certainly hope that this isn't something that needs to be explained. FWIW.... I'm not much of a TV watcher.... and I'm not "always at work"... But, in the past, I have given myself to periods of ponderance. The "WHY"s and the "WHAT"s and the "HOW"s in our lives. Somewhere in my notes, I have the product of a weekend spent (hand calculating.... this is before computers if anyone can remember those days) how far a piston travels down the cylinder after the beginning of a combustion event before the spark plug "fizzles" out (knowing that the spark plug in a properly operating system will "spark" for about 1.5 milliseconds). I'm not a metallurgist (nor do I play one on TV), I have only been able to imagine what could go on with a fastener at vsrious torque values. But at least one gets to understand the difference between shear forces and torsional forces... In the grand scheme of things, I don't expect that my rantings will change anyones outlook on using a torque wrench. For me.... should there be a subsequent failure of any part...I can look my accuser in the eye and state that a particular fastener was torqued to factory spec. Plus, I enjoy the added comfort of knowing that the task was completed to the absolute best of my abilities. Isn't it funny... the older we get, the more we use the torque wrench.... Experience seems to be the best teacher.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Here we are... a body of those that consider themselves professional... and we are resisting doing one of those things that MAKES us professional.... that sets us apart from the shadetree bunch. Now there is a dose of reality and it pretty much says it all. If we are debating whether or not certain fasteners are torque critical then aren't we really discussing what we have been getting away with? I have seen wheel studs fail that were lubricated. I have seen axle shaft bolts fail because they were tightened, and tightened and then tightened again because they no longer retained the strength to clamp the axle shaft in place. I have heard engine knock caused by accessory brackets that were unevenly tightened. I vividly recall a demonstration from 23 years ago that showed the distortion of a cylinder as an engine mount was over tightened. Do you recall my post on the customer that over tightened the CMP clamp bolt? Where do we draw the line? Seriously. I think we are playing a foolish game by justifying not torquing as many things as we should be by labeling them as "non-torque critical." We know better. "Why can't people just DO THEIR JOB?" They simply choose not to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I vividly recall a demonstration from 23 years ago that showed the distortion of a cylinder as an engine mount was over tightened. S'funny you should bring that up...Many moons ago, all 1st year apprentices in Alberta took part in a demonstration involving an old Chevy "Blue Flame 6" engine block and an inside micrometer. The engine block was circa 1953 so one can imagine the amount of cast iron involved.... The micrometer was adjusted so it suspended itself across one cylinder near the top. In turn, each apprentice would place his fingers in the cylinder on one side of the mike and his thumb in the cylinder on the other and squeeze... Whilst waiting for ones turn, thoughts of failure ran through our minds... we were going to look like whimps in front of our classmates!!!! Finally, your turn would come... and with hardly a touch, the mike would drop out of the cylinder...... So much for something made of "solid" cast iron... Not to hijack, but a valid observation on cylinder blocks... All of Fords "old technology" motors (Windsor, Cleveland, 335, 385, FE and even the very old Y blocks) had the head bolt threads in the block deck. Modern technology (including the Navistar) use very long head bolts with the threads located in the main bearing web area.... Food for thought..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Quote: Does the rear pinion nut on a F-550 rear end need to be torqued to 600ft/lb YES!!!! Other than a 1" impact what do you have that will do 600ft/lbs. The Cummins ISX head bolts are 600ft/lbs and the manual states to use the 1" impact on them for correct torque. I haven't seen a torque stick that high YET.... I have a 3/4 drive torque wrench that goes to 600 ft/lbs. It would take a couple of guys to pull it hard enough to make it click, however. A better choice might be a torque multiplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Originally Posted By: LARRYATSTI Quote: Does the rear pinion nut on a F-550 rear end need to be torqued to 600ft/lb YES!!!! Other than a 1" impact what do you have that will do 600ft/lbs. The Cummins ISX head bolts are 600ft/lbs and the manual states to use the 1" impact on them for correct torque. I haven't seen a torque stick that high YET.... I have a 3/4 drive torque wrench that goes to 600 ft/lbs. It would take a couple of guys to pull it hard enough to make it click, however. A better choice might be a torque multiplier. 2 apprentice's, long steel pipes to fit over the rachets, and me with the 3/4'' torque wrench. A torque multiplier is MUCH more realisitic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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