Aaron Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 There's a post on Inford about Verify60 and it's usage. What's it all about? Dwayne Gorniak might be able to help me out here /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 VERIFY60 was a .6 labor op that allowed a technician to do a post repair road test and quality check on 6.0 vehicles and actually get paid for it. It could only be used in conjunction with certain other diagnostic ops though (6005E and 6005F I believe). It came out in 2005 in a memo. Depending on how informed your warranty administrator is, and/or what your warranty numbers look like had a lot to do with how many dealers used it and how often. As of this week, the VERIFY60 labor op has been canceled. Another case of squeezing Diesel techs to keep the company afloat...sigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Quote: Topic:Elimination of VERIFY60 Communication: May 19, 2008 To: All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealer Principals, Service Department Personnel and Warranty Administrators Subject: Elimination of 6.0L Repair Verification Labor Allowance VERIFY60 A Dealer letter published In April 2005 summarized actions that Ford was taking to support repairs for the 6.0L Super Duty vehicles. One component of the support actions was a temporary labor operation, VERIFY60. This allowance was established to provide additional compensation to diesel technicians for diagnostic time and a post-repair road test. As we stated in the original communication, the effectiveness of this temporary allowance would be monitored and adjusted, as necessary. Effective with repairs dated on/after June 1, 2008 the VERIFY60 labor operation will be eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 It came out in 2005 in a memo. Depending on how informed your warranty administrator is, and/or what your warranty numbers look like had a lot to do with how many dealers used it and how often. Apparently I was not the only technician to miss that one but it is funny how I didn't miss that it was canceled. Fuck me! All those trucks I worked on and I got screwed out of .6 on every one? Wow. I guess it would be prudent for technicians to peruse the labor ops and visit the warranty administration section of FMC Dealer once in a while. I just visited the Message Boards looking for a topic on this, though I might start one but it would not have been pleasant... it really frosts my ass that I lost time (money) because somebody was not informed or the dealer had to watch the numbers. What a crock of shit! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I remember seeing Verify6.0 as a labour op some time ago. My bad - never checked into it further (you know the scene - "I'll do it in my spare time") and I'm reasonably sure our warranty clerk wasn't flagging it. I'm a voracious reader (loving bride loves "reality" TV - I don't - so I read... and read....) and one can never hope to read all the stuff that Ford ggnerates - let alone retain a decent portion of it... Add old age into the matrix and you can have a lot of fun.... I can remember what I was doing 30 years ago but I have a hard time recalling what I was doing yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I don't mean anything by this, but I'm really suprised that you guys haven't heard of this. I mean, if Ford is willing to pay a bonus for us to spent a little extra time on a problem vehicle to make sure it is fixed then how are supposed to know about it? We could claim it on drtivability and on oil leaks. how many 6.0L drivability and oil leaks have you guys repaired in the last couple years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Thanks Jeff for explaining that. Aaron, I was going to email you about it to explain it. But this site will explain it quite well. It is a non published labour operation. I used to charge for it on all my diag jobs. However, after a stage two audit and being compared to all the dealerships that either don't know about it or hide it from their technicians to keep their warranty costs down, we were told by the warranty nazi's to quit charging for it. Now with it being cut out completely down in the U.S. we will probably see a memo next weak once it goes through all the French conversions. The reason I had posted it on Protech is because it really P!sses me off that most techs out there did not know about it. And the techs that did know about it and were rightfully charging for it were being discriminated against through the warranty numbers. So I thought I would post a little education about it and lets say Oh....stir the Sh!t a little to see how many techs actually knew about it. So my point was that if all technicians were aware of it and all technicians are treated the same from dealer to dealer, we would all be charging for it and would not have inconsistencies in what we are compared to. But instead, probably ony 20% of technicians knew about it. It was just my way of throwing it back in Ford's face for being all secretive and hiding it from everyone. It is the little things like that the really piss me off. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif Kerry had posted that Three trucks a day at 20 days a month multiplied by 0.6 hours=36 hours a month that he has lost because of it. And I would say that that would be similar for myself. And just like he said, I feel it too. Sorry for swearin so much again Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 James the fact that I didn't know about it is what gets me and now I hear that it was not a published labor operation? So what was the point in making it available in the first place? This is the kind of thing that enrages most technicians. We understand that the factory times are tough to begin with but with all of the changes, TSBs and TSB revisions to find out now that a labor operation that many of us didn't know about existed feels like a kick in the rear. An extra 6 tenths of an hour would make taking the extra time to ensure the trucks were getting repaired properly worthwhile. Ford expects us to be competent, fulfill all of the training requirements and repair their product efficiently and thoroughly - is it too much to ask that we get a little consistency in how we are compensated? Technician pay has been described as a "game" by many and do you know what? I am starting to feel like a mouse... where is my cheese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Being that you said technician pay is like a game and you feel like a mouse, I'm wondering if we all aren't just running in big friggin wheel like they give to lab mice. Oh my God, We're all freakin lab mice. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/surprise.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Is there a chance that THIS might ever get back on track again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Okay, I started shit on the American Boards because apparently nobody else is bringing it up Here is what I wrote, and I kept it low key as not to ask for trouble, I just want to get the topic out there for now and see what develops. Any bets it gets deleted? I have talked with a lot of techs and most have never heard of Verify60 and the ones that did, only knew about it because they just read that it was canceled. Here is a quote from the recent communication: "A Dealer letter published In April 2005 summarized actions that Ford was taking to support repairs for the 6.0L Super Duty vehicles. One component of the support actions was a temporary labor operation, VERIFY60. This allowance was established to provide additional compensation to diesel technicians for diagnostic time and a post-repair road test." That sounds fantastic! Too bad I was never paid for all of those extra road tests and post repair checks I performed time and time again. All the time I spent making sure my dealers customers were taken care of and their vehicles were properly repaired and thoroughly checked. Ford Motor Company's customers... Those of you who know me should recognize me as one who tends to take the more positive approach to most things and I have yet to express any ill-feelings toward Ford on these message boards but I just have to know how anyone else feels about this Verify60 deal. Did you know about this labor op? As I understand it also was not a published op code... other than when it was introduced. (correct me if I am wrong) I suppose Ford meant well and intended to take care of those who were definitely in the "hot seat" as diesel technicians. Are we supposed to be warranty administrators too? I sure could have used that extra time and I would have earned it. How about you? Your thoughts? Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 That's a good post Keith. Nice and clean. Believe it or not I kept my Canadian topic about it clean as well. Well, as clean as I could. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Buncha pansys... What? You afraid of being cancelled? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Yes. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif And I believe I need to be extra cautious. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whistle.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Look at it this way... if you get punted - it gives everyone else something to talk about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Post deleted by flmmaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I knew about Verify60 and used it on my R.Os for quite awile up until about a year ago when I was told I could no longer use it, that "COMPARED TO EVERYONE ELSE IN MY GROUP, I WAS USING IT TO MUCH. YOU ARE TO NO LONGER CLAIM VERIFY60, AND IF YOU DO IT WILL BE CHARGED BACK" My group? I always assumed that meant dealers in the Hartford County area, nope, the entire Boston district. I call bullshit on the entire process. The system is loaded, of course I will be higher, if other shops do not know about the op they won't take it. I am under a microscope right now, to the point that I will be turning away work on vehicles that were not purchased from us. Bought your truck in MA,R.I,VT,NY, whatever, to bad for you, I will not be working on it, return to your selling dealer. Why the attitude? Because I am smarter than your average bear, and Ford wants me to lower my standards of billing to be inline with the boobs and morons to stupid to use the SLTS manual to it's fullest. As I was told by Ford, I am smart enough to know what is wrong with the vehicle before I even start diag, so therefore there is no reason to pay anymore than a few tenths diag time. And just how many times do you have to roadtest, once should be sufficient. By my count it should be at least 3 times. 1, Verify concern 2, Roadtest with test equipment 3, Verify repair Nope, I've been told once is good enough, maybe twice. I have also been told not to claim ANY 12650 labor ops, when using 6005 labor ops, this includes recordings and on and on. This was not by my SM, but rather FoMoCo by telephone conference Fuck 'em and feed 'em beans, I've had it. It's not my fault the value of their stock continues to decline, and it's not my fault they wont meet the profitability projections for this quarter but damn if they don't act like I'M the one responsible for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 No, I don't boot people for silly things and Chris made a good point about reading what is posted everyday. I now read all those communications on the front page, then I bring up the Broadcast messasges. Do you think it was harsh? Or was it truthful? I do agree that the comment about spending time creating this website was not necessary and finding and sharing information is what this is all about. Since then I have been on a mission to gather information from anywhere I can find it. I do recall sending him an EOT sensor connector he was desperate for... I guess that is the respect I get for being helpful. This is why I rarely post there anymore. Enough said, I am letting this roll off my back. Maybe he will login and say hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I was going to elaborate but ended up deleting my comment. So here it is: I think that you're on the board trying to get some genuine proffesional comments on the subject and then personal items are brought in to it. I didn't see the memo either and I don't run a website. So if I reply should I be asked if I'm too lazy to log in? or that I forgot to log in for one day or I was on vacation and missed the window of opportunity altogether? You're right it is silly and I was joking around when I said it but the comment could have been left out of the FMC post. Of course I could have read it wrong and he could just be poking the bear, after all there aren't any smilicons over there. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I am on vacation right now so I am not able to speak with my warranty clerk as to whether or not she knew about it or my service manager for that matter. He typically ops out repair orders to the minimum because Ford Motor Company has bullied him into watching the numbers. I think THAT pisses me off the most because that mode of thinking affects EVERYONE in the shop across all types of vehicles and repairs. On top of that, about a year ago we took a CASHIER and set her behind a desk to op out tickets. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif So whether or not the people who needed to know about this were informed or not, the use of the labor op was also being suppressed as I am reading about this. As usual, this in not only about who saw the memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Quote: Do you think it was harsh? Or was it truthful? Not really harsh, definitly not truthful, but a personal dig.I access all and I mean all shop manuals on the net, the computer is in front of the vehicle I am working on, so it doesn't take much effort to read the front page. No truth in being preoccupied with other things to see what's new there.Keith are you a mind reader or inside my computer here somewhere? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Well, maybe he will login here and explain it a little further. Like I said, blow it off. It doesn't deserve any more attention. Hey, if we could connect our minds and network them then we would easily know what is wrong with these trucks and if our mind power is strong enough we could just will them fixed with some Borg-like force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I don't have a kind bone in my body. Here was my reply "Chris, sounds a little pompus to me. With everything our jobs and life require from us I do believe it possible to miss things from time to time. Aren't you the perfect little worker bee." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Here's mine: Quote: I'll second that!!! Thanks Keith for all you do for us. As far as Verify60 goes. I knew about it only because I happened to read the message when it came out. I don't read everything on this site because frankly-there isn't a labor op for it that I know of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif And I get better information from a different aforementioned site anyway. I generally only seek the information that I need, and my svc manager would not like it much if I spent all morning weeding through the latest Ford News for something useful. It's easy to see how more techs may have missed it than not...Is that their fault? I say no, If it was a Labor operation, it should have been published in SLTS webview like all the others. This idea of "double secret probation ops" that aren't in SLTS but do mysteriously get paid by ACES by the few who happen to know about them doesn't seem very forthright to me - my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Stephen, I feel the same way you do. That is why I posted the topic on the Canadian Message board. As for this Chris guy, What did he say on your message board? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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