Alex Bruene Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 As I sit here, watching the 0.1s tick away as home time gets closer and closer, I thought I might reflect a little on this past week... particularily 3 experiences I had with indy repair shops... Number 1, a 2005 F-250 4X4, has been at an indy for 2 weeks with a steering concern of the steering wheel being yanked out of your hands turning corners... 4 new ball joints, new steering box, new steering pump, new steering damper, all to the tune of nearly $3000. The customer wanted to talk to me so I could find out directly from him what was going on, and that the other shop had told him it were likely a problem with the hydro-boost, and should be under warranty... I told him that it sounds like a siezed front axle U-joint... which upon further inspection was the case... a few hours and $400 later, he was on the road working again... how was that over looked if the axle has to come out to replace the ball joints, and how do they explain $3000 of misdiagnosis? Number 2, a 2004 F-450 6.0, no-start... this one was originally being diagnosed by an indy for rough running cold. They were trying to replace the FICM. They called us about 2 weeks ago, asking if the new FICM had to be programmed, we told them it did, and with the info. provided, the vehicle was still under warranty... they had the truck towed to us in pieces, and it looked like they tried to unplug the FICM connectors with a sledge hammer. We told them it would need an engine harness, and they would have to pay. They took it away, replaced the harness and towed it back on Thursday, wouldn't start. Turns out they completely destroyed another connector on the left inner fender that supplies power to the FICM relay, and tried to hold it together with electrical tape. A few wire repairs and a FICM update, and it's back on the road. Number 3, a 2006 E-450 6.8L bus. This one is from the same shop as number 2... was originally in for an oil change, they didn't seem to think that it was important to put oil back in the engine. They ended up replacing the crank-shaft, and has been running rough and stalling ever since (about 2 weeks). The customer got fed up and had it towed into us. The fuel trims were way through the roof, and you could hear a massive vacuum leak. Turns out the upper plenum blue rubber seal had been substituted with RTV. I replaced the seal, and it's all good... I don't know if I'm trying to make a point or not, but these are the shops that we are competing with for business... when we were asking the customers why they didn't come here in the first place, 2 said it was because we were too expensive, but as it turns out, our door rate is less than the indy. rate. As to the third, it was strictly out of convenience. I think it angers me a bit that dealers still have a reputation of being too expensive, and wonder what we have to do to change that. Ahhh... yeah... that feels better. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 I had to answer a call from an indy shop on where the EGR valve was on a 6.4L. This is how the conversation went Me: "Um, why are you changing a egr valve on the 6.4, A. it's under warranty, and B it's pressed in meaning you have to use the special tool to remove it." Indy "tech," "well i thought the EGR would be a quick fix." Me: "for what?" Indy "Tech," "it blow's white smoke on cold start-ups." Me: "(long silence)......alright, (then spent 10min trying to explain where the hell the sensor was, til i fianlly gave up.)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Just in the last couple of years we got our very own local Cambodian Tire... oops, Canadian Tire. Many years ago, one of their lead mechanics and I used to work together... That's right - at one point in time, I was spending far too much time on the phone trying to be the nice guy. (By this time, they had already cost themselves a 6.0 long block). Finally, through unexplained acronyms, vague PID references and a certain amount of misinformation - the help requests have dwindled to less than one a month. We have three local tire shops - two of which do mechanical repair. Both of these feature ex-employees that didn't quite cut the mustard. Thursday, I get a call from one. They are about to change the spark plugs on a 5.4 3V and he has heard some horror stories about the task. At one point, he was going to suggest to his management that they sublet the "repair" to us... but he finally decided to forge ahead and try to "borrow" our tools if things went bad. Our SM decided he'd "rent" them our tools.... My stance is "over my cold corpse". I can only imagine how badly these can be damaged - and how long it takes Rotunda to send us stuff I order. The other tire shop worked on a truck belonging to the driller for the service rig my son works on. An 03 "no start". They started by replacing the head gaskets... then the EGR valve... then the EGR cooler... then the FICM... then the HPOP... over a three week span, I am unsure of what all was done. Neither am I sure of the customers final bill. But I do know that when the truck finally made it out of the shop, it quite three days later. I was supposed to go to the young chaps house with a PDS and offer what wisdom I could but my son called me off - on a slow afternoon they replaced the ICP sensor and tyhe truck hasn't missed a beat since. Currently, one of our Mexicans (hmm, I think I haven't told you guys the story about this) is replacing cam phasers on a sublet job from still another local shop. Now - we've had to use the excuse that our alignment rack is "down" on occasion when we sublet an alignment (the truth is that they have overbooked me and it'll be three weeks before I can come up for air)... But how do you explain subletting a cam phaser job to your customer? "Hey, Moe, we're daft so we're sending your truck to a place you didn't go...". Yes, Alex... the world is a truly interesting place. And there is no explaining some of the things that go on in it. Nor can we explain how customers come to some of the decisions they make. Worse yet, there is no explaining how anyone wanting to call himself a tech can venture into a repair adventure without at least a little background knowledge of the system he is working on. Occasionally, we get "off breed" stuff in the shop. I'm at the point where I have reservations about doing even some of the simple repairs in case we run into something the requires documents and/or experience that we just don't have. You can often hear me telling one of our SAs "we don't want that job...". There is, I am told, an ancient Chinese curse... "may you live in interesting times". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Speaking of kids... am I the only lucky guy who married a broad that SPEEDS UP for those big ass speed bumps in residential areas intended to slow people down near schools and such? ...so that our little monsters sitting in the third row of our Freestyle can go "WHEEEE!" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif All three of them are lucky I have a sense of humor... especially the big one! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 Speaking of broads... I washed my car three times this week.... I don't know where she finds all that fargin' mud but there seems to be some unwritten law that we need to bring all of it home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Don't even bring up the soon to be 2nd ex..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeuiTim Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 I think it angers me a bit that dealers still have a reputation of being too expensive, and wonder what we have to do to change that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cheers.gif It all depends on the customers first contact at your dealership. Back in the day when I was a....salesman at a LM dealer, we had great techs and two great SA's. A third not not much. Makes a big difference. Owners change hands, owners take the key people with them leave was does not work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Our local Sears shop sent us a Probe they put a battery in that still wouldn't charge, after deciding it was over their heads. I popped the hood and took a look see to find no alternator belt. Same store sent us an Escort they said had a bad wheel bearing. They just did an oil change and tire rotation. I take it down the highway and run over a road reflector and it sounded like someone shot at me with a cannon. Got back to the shop and all the tire pressures were over 100 psi. Jeez.... these guys just rotated the tires!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Alex, while I think about it. It is traditional that dealership door rates can be as much as 25% above those of an independant shop. Many customers, however, abide this "surcharge" as long as they get what they feel they deserve... Fixed right the first time on time The car returned to them as clean (or cleaner) than when they dropped it off The car appears to be untouched - everything appears as it did the day it was new The tech is knowledgeable, well trained and has all the proper tools and manuals at his disposal The tech has a reasonable facimile of factory support A clean, comfortable, well appointed waiting area Sadly, too many shops have missed the mark on most if not all of these points. Every shop has it's few star players... and every shop has those techs that have stretched their talents to the limit or even techs that have made a poor career choice. The good guys can only do so much to mitigate the bad done by the not so good guys (why, in Gods name, would someone use a $2000 polished aluminum custom bumper as a step?). Let's add that our "superior product knowledge" should allow us to live up to part of why we are so much more expensive. We don't work on a mixed bag of brands... we "specialize" in the products listed on that big sign outside. This, plus familiarity with the dominant platforms in our area, should and does have us wasting less time and money in our diagnosis. And should make our diagnosis accurate (watch around your shop... see the guys that change modules... and then scramble to find the open circuit they need to fix on the QT to make everyone think the module fixed the concern?). Along with all those other points, the customer is also paying for "thorough". And let's not forget the support staff. Even a small dealer is going to someone processing work orders, someone doing warranty claims, accounts receivable, accounts payable, employee payroll and such, someone washing cars, someone doing handyman stuff around the building - the list goes on. Everyone in the building is part of the PR team. The coin to feed this monster has to come from somewhere.. and that is "user fees"... the door rate. From my experience - yes, dealers charge more per hour. But just about anything we do should take less hours than the aftermarket (one only needs to hear some of the horror stories surrounding 6.0 repairs in independant shops.. the driller on the rig my som works for - 6 weeks for a no start and tons of wasted money). What angers me is that there are may of us that care... that try to stay abreast of technology... that are constantly perfecting their craft. But so many others simply have a "job" - as long as they get a paycheck, they don't give a rats rosey red if he is giving his customer his moneys worth... And if we don't give the customer his moneys worth - we are going to look like we "overcharge". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I think it angers me a bit that dealers still have a reputation of being too expensive, and wonder what we have to do to change that. I remember an alignment job a few years ago that came from an indy shop up the road.(he sent all his alignments to us as he didn't have an alignment machine)It was a Chevy Cavalier and was for a 4-wheel alignment. I called the shop back to say we didn't have the proper shims to do the rear and he agreed to let us do a 2 wheel instead. A couple of days later the owner of the car shows up in my face p-o'd becuase he only got a 2 wheel alignment. I explained the situation to him. He calmed down a little but got angry again when I asked him how much the fruit picker up the road charged him. He got charged $109.95 for an alignment that we only charged the fruit picker $29.95 for. And us dealers have a reputaion of being too expensive? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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