Ford still sees nothing wrong with the 6.0L

[ninja972r]

I'm getting pretty fed up with Ford's review staff on the 6.0L repairs. I had a high pressure pump failure on a 05.Sent in all diag info when the pump fails. Over 130 degrees F no more than 330 psi. They told me I needed a high pressure pump connector.They bounced the claim. I called a Ford engineer I know to have them test it at the temp that I had posted. Guess what. It failed. The claim was then paid. After a month of bull crap. Now I have Ford telling me I did TSB08-11-03 wrong. Coolant loss TSB. After using this and the old TSB 18 times this year. Now they say the flow chart I'm using is wrong. They really can go FUCK themselves. Now I have to go through another appeal. Talk with the pencil pushers again. I'm really close to calling quits on Ford all together.After 15 years of working on the Power Stroke. I just don't see an end to this Hell we Ford mechanics live in.

[Alex Bruene]

Well, if you crossed all your "t"'s, and dotted all your "i"'s, you should have nothing to worry about.

[G. Bedford]

We recently had a HPOP ticket kicked back,too. They said it passed their bench test and was producing pressure. Well, gee, I guess we must be missing the Rotunda HPOP bench tester Ford sent every dealer like they did the on-car brake lathe. So, I guess we can only do the tests per the manual in a process of elimination until the causal part is identified at our shop. We were not as lucky as you to get the claim paid. Maybe we should start having the vehicle owner pay the bill first, so if the ticket gets bounced we are covered like the aftermarket warranties.

[Skidonenko]

We had a couple claims get kicked (i do not know if they have been paid yet) after replacing the pump for trash in the IPR. We have had hell getting prior aproval for anything already in place let alone this crap to come. Sent in a request for a long block on a 3v 5.4 and it came back stating "other dealers are repairing these under the cost cap" I know the guy did not read anything that I typed and the parts cost. I love this job (I hate dealing with people) but I will be looking into something else soon, maybe a county or city.

 

I wonder what ford is finding on the 6.4 tick/cracking noise

[ktmlew]

I'm getting pretty fed up with Ford's review staff on the 6.0L repairs. I had a high pressure pump failure on a 05.Sent in all diag info when the pump fails. Over 130 degrees F no more than 330 psi. They told me I needed a high pressure pump connector.They bounced the claim. I called a Ford engineer I know to have them test it at the temp that I had posted. Guess what. It failed. The claim was then paid. After a month of bull crap. Now I have Ford telling me I did TSB08-11-03 wrong. Coolant loss TSB. After using this and the old TSB 18 times this year. Now they say the flow chart I'm using is wrong. They really can go FUCK themselves. Now I have to go through another appeal. Talk with the pencil pushers again. I'm really close to calling quits on Ford all together.After 15 years of working on the Power Stroke. I just don't see an end to this Hell we Ford mechanics live in.

I told them to stuff it back in summer of 05...got a little dehydrated a while back, got all dizzy and almost went to work at another Ford dealer but fortunately came to my senses!

 

Screw em'!!!

[Tony302600]

They are starting to bounce claims for HP pump replacement after seeing the IPR trashed even with a hotline request form printed to the R.O. stating "whenever there is debris in the IPR and hole, the IPR and Pump MUST BE REPLACED. I even higlighted and underlined it on the request form i printed out.

[Shlep]

Ford just figures we're all out to screw them, as if swapping out heads or HPOP's on a 6.0 is soooo much fun there's nothing we'd rather be doing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

[Jim Warman]

Backing up one very small step... I spend a not inconsiderable time perusing "public" forums. This will open your eyes to the level of satisfaction some owners AREN'T seeing.... Does anyone here check the service history of what they work on?

 

We have a lot of transient customers.... looking at their service history, we often see a long chain of the same parts being replaced over and over.... With nobody ever really looking for the root cause....

 

"Ineffective repairs"... they're being made all over the place... Those of us here, with the desire to do things right, have little effect on the grand scheme of things as "rank and file" parts jockeys load their cannons for another repair effort.

 

Ford isn't responding to you, me or anyone else in particular. I see Ford as a company that is being bled dry by under-achievers... They are responding badly but the truth remains...

 

Case in point... the number of owners that have had multiple RMS replacements... How many RMS failures have YOU seen? And this isn't limited to RMSs....

 

We are painted with the same brush as those techs that should be seeking a rewarding career in the food and hospitality industry. Look at what the guy in the next by is doing... and tell me that we aren't paying for the sins of our bretheren.....

[ninja972r]

Really good point. But Ford should look at the techs CSI too. Not having repeat repairs for the same concern means you did your job and repair properly.When they ask for copies of an RO front and back. They might see the customer request the same tech,because he or she fixed right the first time for another complaint. That's a good indication of a tech doing thier job correctly.

[Tony302600]

I personally have never seen a rear main seal leak on a 6.0. I see a shitload of leaking Hot side cac tubes that make it look like the rear main is leaking.

[Jim Warman]

Really good point. But Ford should look at the techs CSI too. Not having repeat repairs for the same concern means you did your job and repair properly.When they ask for copies of an RO front and back. They might see the customer request the same tech,because he or she fixed right the first time for another complaint. That's a good indication of a tech doing thier job correctly.

There's two sides to that coin, Scott... One of our fleets demands that no matter how small or mundane the task, only three of us be allowed to touch their trucks.. Yes, the three techs that I speak of care about their finished product...

 

But it isn't about how we have pleaed them - it is about how the rest of our "warm bodies" have displeased them... And that is a sad state of affairs.

[Shlep]

Look at what the guy in the next by is doing... and tell me that we aren't paying for the sins of our bretheren.....

You hit the perverbial nail on the head right there Jim, I've seen way to many ineffective repairs being made in the stall one over, and you're right about all of us paying the price for the "parts hangers" in this trade. Aaron will know exactly whom I'm referring to...... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif

[DwayneGorniak]

 

But it isn't about how we have pleaed them - it is about how the rest of our "warm bodies" have displeased them... And that is a sad state of affairs.

A sad state indeed. But it is also a sad state of affairs that our whole trade has absolutely no process in place to track quality repairs and there is no recognition for it other than the fact that at the end of the month, they see the dollars you have produced and ask you if you can do it again. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/fouet3.gif And you can be doing a better job than the hack next to you, but if that hack makes the shop twenty or fourty percent more a month than you can by doing a quality repair, Management usually says something like: Yeah but the combacks don't cost near as much as what that hack makes. That truly is a sad state of affairs. Because bad news travels fast which affects the dealerships reputaion and good news rarely gets around. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Customers don't see that John Doe (the hack) screwed the vehicle up, they see the dealership that screwed their car up.

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

I've seen way to many ineffective repairs being made in the stall one over, and you're right about all of us paying the price for the "parts hangers" in this trade.

Got one working with me that I am not too sure about. I am guessing the "A-word" may be heard at some point. Do constant calls to the Hot-Line count for anything? I think they are diagnosing many of the jobs I am dispatching... or at least the Hot-Line assistance status page seems to indicate so. Is over-repairing similar to ineffective repairs?

[Jim Warman]

Is over-repairing similar to ineffective repairs?

I think they are close enough to one and the same thing that any differences will be a moot point... One is an ineffective "repair" and the other is an ineffective diag... Whether it is Ford (who is, by the way, a "customer")or a private customer - the end result is the same... the customer is displeased... The guy off the street can do little more than complain... Ford, OTOH, has a means of recourse.

 

I am reasonably sure that Ford wouldn't find much fault with a little bit of gain time if there weren't repeat repairs, ineffective repairs and customers expressing displeasure with Ford products...

 

Don't get me wrong... most of this sh!t shouldn't be breaking in the first place... But I'm willing to bet that each and every one of us has seen and still sees a steady stream of repairs that were botched, improperly diaged or carry some other stigma that a customer is quite justly pissed with.

 

Not all of my ROs are squeaky clean winners.. especially when you have what amounts to a large caliber weapon pointed at your temple and not enough time allotted for the desired result.. but we still try to go the extra mile and make the best of a bad situation... In our world.. this separates "us" from "them"... In the customers world, we will all be assholes.

 

On edit.... thankfully, Keith can't check my hotline usage... I often call hotline or have a tech call hotline for no other reason than to add to the "paper trail". In another thread, we are discussing prior approval... how long before we must have prior approval to get rid of that second bowl of chili we had at lunch...

 

If I even suspect that warranty is going to flex their muscle, I want all the ammo we can get....

[Keith Browning]

thankfully, Keith can't check my hotline usage... I often call hotline or have a tech call hotline for no other reason than to add to the "paper trail".

But at least you can diagnose most things on your own and covering your bases is something quite different than needing a crutch more than 50% of the time. I expect more from a master diesel technician that has passed all of the tests and has more than a decade of experience.

 

I suppose some guys need that and I guess its better than wingin' it. I just think that there are a lot of guys who can do what they do because they learned the trick (i.e. throw these parts on to fix this) and repeat as necessary. "Ineffective diag" - yep, you hit the nail on the head and that is exactly why we are faced with this situation.

 

As for Ford not seeing a problem with their product I had to replace another rusted tank... a 2007 F550 with 17 on the clock. We were told we have to call our rep on ALL fuel tank concerns and get approval. We did. He told us to call the HotLine. We did. They mentioned bio-diesel, we made our case and explained that there is a clear difference between chemically induced lining delamination and a poorly applied lining. The phone went silent and the call ended abruptly;y with a "replace the tank." Then we had to call the rep back for the go ahead. Yeah, they know those tanks are a big problem, they just wont admit it because its gonna cost them a lot of coin. This is the other reason we are in this situation.

[Rickster42]

dwayne, x10 in the bay next to me. I have posted about it before... Parts tossed at a dizzying rate.. Hotline/inford/reading MY r.o. repair stories/internet searches on every driveability r.o.

He may as well be working on a friggin nuclear reactor for all he knows about diesels.(yes he did the courses...)

Same thing, numbers are good...

Discussed several times with sm = no results...

BUT... we have slowed considerably and I now find myself with no jobs available fairly often, while someone else has a stack...

I looked at my last pays booked hours, and said to myself that it ain`t happening again.

Well yesterday was pay cutoff, and they have not given me my hours yet....

Went to the office,took all my holiday pay today, in lieu of holidays in case they try to mess with that(ya never know..).

I see a change in my near future...

[Tony302600]

ANyone ever find out whatever happened with the SGT's oil leak 6.0L in millwaukee? I am curious.

[Torqued_Up]

I havent had my balls broken by Ford yet but for a while they were asking a lot of questions and asking to fax the front and back of tickets and sometimes ask why replaced this part or that part

[Aaron]

Originally Posted By: Jim Warman

Look at what the guy in the next by is doing... and tell me that we aren't paying for the sins of our bretheren.....

You hit the perverbial nail on the head right there Jim, I've seen way to many ineffective repairs being made in the stall one over, and you're right about all of us paying the price for the "parts hangers" in this trade. Aaron will know exactly whom I'm referring to...... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif

Listen, pal, I won't have you talking about the most qualified guy in the shop like that anymore, GOT IT?

 

LMFAO /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif

[Steve Mutter]

Hi Rick its Steve from Mid Town,Hard to find a good Ford shop in Winnipeg,it seems we have to many dealers and none of them can book in steady work, kind of the same thing hear, people decline work till they get a brake job or maint #3 or if it is a diesel truck they will use the old "its diesel work" that is if it is anything other then brakes or ball joints then they will work on it,I looked at going to CAA's fleet shop but I don't know what they pay?

[G. Bedford]

Couple good threads to monitor on the Ford boards about tickets getting kicked back. On the Service section titled "charge backs 6.0 diesel" and the Warranty Administrators section titled "Diesel 'Part not Defective' chargebacks". Good info to prepare you for what is ahead.

[Keith Browning]

Quote:

Tech's question:

Took fuel sample at the test port. The fuel is dark in color and a fine black sediment forms at the bottom of my sample bottle. I took another sample at the fuel filter housing and the fuel there looks good, light yellow with minimal amount of water in the collection bowl. Both samples smell okay, no evidence of gasoline or other contamination. Am I looking at a HPFP failure here as it seems that there has been some sort of failure in the high pressure system? Please advise with repair instructions.



Hotline recommendation:





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Call Log:



Calls to hotline for this vehicle:



5/8/2008 2:22:00 PM - Tech said:

The vehicle is in for a crank no start concern with codes p0087, p2269, and p2291. The technician checked the fuel and it is clean, the HFCM was then drained and minimal water was found with clean fuel. A fuel sample was then pulled from the fuel cooler and a black sediment like substance was found.


5/8/2008 2:22:00 PM - Hotline recommended:

It is advised at this time that the entire HP fuel system needs to be replaced. That will include the HFCM, HPP, fuel rails, 8 injectors, fuel cooler, secondary fuel filter housing, and all fuel lines to and from the HPP. The fuel return passages will also need to be flushed.

Somehow the Warranty Nazi Division at the Big Blue Borg does not understand that the contamination was CAUSED by the HPP failure. This is an $8,000.00 claim they are trying to skate on. I guess we have to really spell things out for these idiots.

[snw blue by you]

Let me guess, they said there were no grounds to rebuild the entire fuel system and the tech was never given authorization to replace said components.

 

READ THE HOTLINE LOG YOU FUCKING MORON!!!

[Keith Browning]

No, they declined it because they assumed there was contaminated fuel and I guess they just glanced over the report, or the RO. In any event I have to discuss this with my SM when he returns from vacation and then with our REP if we expect to get paid. They really have balls now don't they?

 

...and I like the BORG smiley... need to add that one!