Brad Clayton Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 This is frickin' awesome, we have come along way from the EECIV monitor setup! Quote: To: All Ford and Lincoln Mercury Dealerships Subject: Announcing Powertrain Control/Emissions Diagnosis (PCED) Manual with Interactive Measurements on PTS ANNOUNCEMENT Ford Customer Service Division (FCSD) and Rotunda Tools are pleased to announce the launch of Powertrain Controls/Emissions Diagnosis (PCED) Manual with Interactive Measurements, available exclusively on the PTS website. Interactive Measurements enable PCED to display vehicle sensor data, such as a Parameter Identification Data (PID), directly within the diagnostic test steps of the Manual. The technician will also have the option to perform and record voltage and resistance measurements within the PCED, as well as actively command vehicle components as needed to support diagnosis. Integrating vehicle diagnostic data with service procedures eliminates the need for the technician to switch between applications and/or separate computer systems in the service bay, saving time. Diagnostic data from the actual vehicle is displayed in the pinpoint test, allowing for quick yes/no decisions. REQUIRED EQUIPMENT No new software or hardware purchases are required to enable Interactive Measurements. Technicians will need: A computer loaded with IDS version 53 or higher Internet Explorer 6.0 or higher Internet access to PTS (wired or wireless internet connection) VCM (Vehicle Communications Module) VMM (Vehicle Measurement Module). This is optional and allows interactive voltage/resistance measurements. VEHICLE COVERAGE Interactive Measurements are available in the online PCED for the following vehicles: 2007-2009 model year Gasoline engine vehicles (except Escape/Mariner Hybrid) 2007-2009 model year Diesel engine vehicles (except 4.5L Diesel Low Cab Forward) HOW TO GET STARTED A quick tutorial on using Interactive Measurements is available within the online PCED for each vehicle program featuring Interactive Measurements. Open the PTS website and select a covered vehicle program (as defined above). Go to the PCED tab for that program. Select "Click Here to Learn More" on the splash page. QUESTIONS Questions regarding Interactive Measurements and supported vehicle programs should be directed to Tony Webb at (313) 323-0333 or twebb16@ford.com. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Brad... I can't find mnetiuon of this anywhere on our Canadian server. This could mean that they are only waiting to translate it into French - or it could mean that we will have to wait a while for this to be available in Canada. Quite some time ago, we were chatting about "OASIS Quick Start" and I think I mentioned than that we would most likely see diagnostics get "dumbed down". With this announcement, I find myself running my fingers ever so lightly over the surface of my crystal ball and thinking... here we go.... There is every chance that we will soon see "techs" that do nothing more than replace parts at the behest of some nameless, faceless big brother located on the far end of a computer connection.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 That looks kinda neat! Anyone know anything about the Protech GCR Rewards thingy? Everything I click on in the popup says "You are not authorized to view this publication". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Maybe they figured out that you know Jim! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 Jim's ruined it for all of The Great White North. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 26, 2008 Author Share Posted June 26, 2008 instructional walk thru from PCED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 So basically we have either just been given a great diagnostic tool for those who cant fix shit or we have just received the biggest insult Ford has ever dished out to technicians. Great. Now my fucking cashier can diagnose trucks. Then again... if you have tried to diagnose a 6.4L with the PCED, this might get interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 So basically we have either just been given a great diagnostic tool for those who cant fix shit or we have just received the biggest insult Ford has ever dished out to technicians. Great. Now my fucking cashier can diagnose trucks. Then again... if you have tried to diagnose a 6.4L with the PCED, this might get interesting! Most of us know how this pap plays out in the trenches.... We all know that Ford is going to have us check powers with a voltmeter and an open circuit.... We know they will have us check grounds with with a freakin' ohm-meter.. And we know that there's going to be a lot of self-fulfilling prophecy... Ford is going to take their limp dick circuit tests and cast them in stone.... and they are going to elevate the guys that can't tell these tests are limp dick to better than you are - simply because they can follow orders and come up with bad answers... Guided diagnostics... this is Fords way of telling us we are idiots that can't fix a sandwich. There is a bigger story here... If you need some of it,let me know.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 There is a bigger story here... If you need some of it,let me know.... Don't hold back on us now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 So basically we have either just been given a great diagnostic tool for those who cant fix shit or we have just received the biggest insult Ford has ever dished out to technicians. Great. Now my fucking cashier can diagnose trucks. You been drinking again? Somebody piss in your Cheerios? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 No. But I just spent a few hours with my FSE and we talked about this, he said "it" is a disaster. It is meant to help the guys who "need" the help... further explained it likely wont go far. I'll tell my cashier to hold off on those pink cover-alls for now. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Funky ass sh!t. Man, I've got some of the guys here all boiled up about big brother watching over their shoulders and telling them how to do sh!t. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/poke.gif However, who says we have to actually use it at this point. Might not be a bad aid for Idiots, but I'll just keep doin my own thing for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 Originally Posted By: Jim Warman There is a bigger story here... If you need some of it,let me know.... Don't hold back on us now! You might recognize this from another thread.... <As for us, there are many techs who have been mis-diagnosing, replacing good parts and abusing the policies. Not all of us but enough to cause problems. Now, we all have to suffer because instead of addressing the problem directly by going after the dealers/technicians who are the problem Ford has changed it's approach entirely.> Enter the "interactive diagnostic process". Why train people? For many, the training wont "stick" anyway but everyone will want a great wage (commensurate on their skills - or not) because they have a "certificate". Now - with "interactive diagnostics" we can take trained monkeys and have them fix cars.... well, maybe kinda.... and save ourselves a bundle... We wont have to worry about FIRTFT because the new "dumbed down" wages will only attract people too stupid to know what "scapegoat" means. And the customers will believe nearly anything we are bold enough to state. Whether this is an experiment or a bold move forward.... it worries me.... It is cause for concern for both "us" and for our customers.... Like John DeLorean or Lee Iaccoca, I'm sure I could write a novel about this trade... not with the "insider" view of the aforementioned movers and shakers... but with the jaundiced eye of an old fart that has seen things come and things go - and while some of these comings and goings were big deals in my world - they were ho-hum for Joe Consumer. What it is boiling down to - the consumer is simply one member in a flock of sheep.... He will be fleeced when it is his turn. Years ago - I would back my car into a parking spot and turn on my headlights.... A sweet young thing in a mini-skirt (barely below "see" level) would come out and take my order. At this point, we would light a cigarette (something I haven't had in over two weeks, I might add) - when it was about done - the sweet young thing would reappear bearing tray. On this tray would be a chunk of dead cow... REAL dead cow.. cooked and decorated to my specs.... Back then "I" mattered.... Today... they pull a shingle from under the heat lamp - this is the way "everybody" eats them - sorry, no substitutions and no special orders... If you fucking customers would stop expecting special treatment, we could make some healthy profits here.... Life would be so much better without customers.... So... where is the old guy going with this tirade? Think, boys and girls... we only need to think. The psychologists and behaviour analysts are in control of most peoples lives... Many of you don't stand a chance against a well placed, well constructed advertising campaign.... and it doesn't stop with consumer goods.... If you don't excell at your chosen craft... if you aren't honest.... if you lack insight and foresight.... you may, one day, be replaced by "interactive diagnostics". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 It's all well and good, but time will tell if it will get used, How will Ford ever know if the guided diagnostics is actually being used and whether it is effective? I care about my job and my career so I am going to put my best into training and whatever else to stay on top of things but do I really need an interactive manual. no. As it is I find myself asking whether the pp test i am on makes sense before proceeding. Maybe I will try it a few times before deciding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 I view this thing with optimism. I have been to the diagnostic rodeo quite a few times in my career. So if I am following a pinpoint test I know to have the evtm open and verifying what is being asked of me test. If an ohm check is required I know I need to be load testing and or voltage dropping the circuit in question. With that said let's say I don't have an '09 pc/ed in the shop and I am just a poor 'ol country boy so I don't have a lap top and the nearest computer is in the break room. If I am working on a brand new whatever and I have to diag a code I've never heard of and the pinpoint test has a boat load of yes/no deals, then I am going to save a lot of walking if I can do it all from the IDS on the driver's seat. Now I see that as a gigantic benefit. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif For all that see it differently then we just agree to disagee. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 As it is I find myself asking whether the pp test i am on makes sense before proceeding. Maybe I will try it a few times before deciding. You should always be thinking about what you are doing, what you are working on and what the book is telling, or asking you to do. I am a big believer in using the manual, BUT, if you are not analyzing the diagnostics as you are going along you can get tripped up easily and end up going in the wrong direction. My point is that using guided diagnostics can turn a tech into a mindless drone with a probe in hand. This is not a step in the right direction. If a tech chooses to use the guided diag it can help re-enforce the diagnostic process. I see the potential for good and the potential for bad. And as Jim and Bruce frequently point out, circuit and ground testing is not always best performed with just a DVOM. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 If you don't excel at your chosen craft... if you aren't honest.... if you lack insight and foresight.... you may, one day, be replaced by "interactive diagnostics". Nice point, but insight and foresight cannot be taught, only learned from experience. This is what a junior technician can't do- I call it "reading between the lines". Brad made a nice point of checking VD on a circuit the PPT calls for ohming. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 The way I see it, if you are going to use the PP test anyhow, it just saves time by inserting the test results in the PP test onscreen. It is still up to the tech to decide what the results mean and which test step to go to next. If you don't agree with the test to begin with then it is up to you to use your head for more than a hat rack and figure out what to do on your own. It does not automatically go to the next step based on the results obtained from the previous test. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 PPT??? How bad do we need them? More precisely.... how bad "should" we need them. Let's look at different kinds of codes (and I'd love to find a definitive list of code suffixes - you know, like P0404-60F or what have you)... We can have a code that is an electrical failure... should be fairly easy.... We can have a code that is a "range/performance" failure... a little tougher because an "unexpected" sensor reading could be electrical or mechanical - no biggy, we can manage... we can have a code that signals a mechanical failure... or we can have one of those damned "informational" codes.... Ford tries to publish a PPT that goes from least intrusive to more intrusive... honorable... So - why in Gods name do they insist on using inappropriate tests when they could as easily publish a description of volt drop testing... or at least drop ship some sort of a variable load tool for proper circuit testing. (I'd love to see things from their point of view - but I can't fit my head that far up my ass....). Will these guided diagnostics results ever make it back to Ma Ford? If you are using the on line manuals.. there's a real good chance.... If you are using OASIS Quick Start.... How will we ever know if big brother is watching? The big deal is that there will come a point in time where you wont need to be smart... and, since you wont need to be smart, you will get paid as much as the kid whose eyes light up when the french fry machine goes "DING". The consumer will get used to service that is even worse than what he gets now... They (we) always do. I'm a bitter old f@ck, ain't I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Kaylor Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 how bout they teach the basics and show the techs how it works, so they can use that piece of gray matter in their skulls for something more than an alcohol sponge? pinpoint tests are fucking useless in my personal opinion. i have worked with so many tards that believe soley in what they read or see in a PPT that they overlook the basics, missing the problem! i guess common sense and deductive reasoning strategy are not traits most people have anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHNO60 Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 hey keith whos your FSE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 David Wynn. Great guy who makes the effort to help get things done. He should be your FSE too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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