Aaron Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 1226 - A REVIEW OF WARRANTY RETURNED 6.0L HIGH PRESSURE PUMPS HAS FOUND MANY TO BE NOT DEFECTIVE. PLEASE REFER TO TSB 08-09-09 FOR COMPLETE HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM DIAGNOSTICS. NOTE: IF THE IPR VALVE SCREEN HAS FOREIGN MATERIAL, THEN REMOVE THE FOREIGN MATERIAL AND CONTINUE WITH IPR DIAGNOSTICS IN TSB 06-13-03 OR HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM TSB 08-09-09. IF THE IPR VALVE SCREEN IS FOUND TO BE DAMAGED THEN INSTALL A NEW IPR VALVE. THE PRESENCE OF DEBRIS ON THE SCREEN DOES NOT WARRANT HPP OR IPR VALVE REPLACEMENT. PUBLICATIONS ARE BEING UPDATED TO REFLECT THIS. Sooo....if there's trash on the screen, change the pump, WAIT...no...DON'T! (BTW, Firefox is supporting alot of Inford.com now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Soooo..... they are basically saying....No don't change the pump, we can't afford it after all the head gasket repairs. Drain engine oil and refill with fifteen litres of STP engine oil treatment. She should build pressure after that. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 So if the pump is not what is causing holes in the ipr's then what is? Or do they just mean if there is debris on the screen to not replace the pump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Quote: A REVIEW OF WARRANTY RETURNED 6.0L HIGH PRESSURE PUMPS HAS FOUND MANY TO BE NOT DEFECTIVE. I wish they would speak the truth for once. It should read "I know we told you to replaced the hpop if the ipr screen was damaged but now we don't want you to do that. All the pumps that are stacked up like cord wood at the return center and check out on the bench are our responsibilty not yours, o.k. .....now go find something else that is bad other than the hpop." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 YUP, just like the EGR valve TSB thing. First they tell us NOT to replace them without trying to clean and retest first. Now, they just tell us to replace. And then, as Aaron's signature reads, "Hotline recommended: Keep replacing egr valves until one passes the test or stops setting egr codes." So what's next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Quote: PUBLICATIONS ARE BEING UPDATED TO REFLECT THIS I don't remember seeing it printed anywhere that we are supposed to automatically replace the pump if the IPR is damaged, I think I read it here though Was this a Hotline recommendation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Quote: PUBLICATIONS ARE BEING UPDATED TO REFLECT THIS I don't remember seeing it printed anywhere that we are supposed to automatically replace the pump if the IPR is damaged, I think I read it here though Was this a Hotline recommendation? I do recall something about damaged IPR screens and replacing HPOPs... but the sad part is that broadcast messages fade into history pretty quick (well, up until Kieth started archiving them), never toi be seen again... SSMs - unless you know the number of the SSM you are looking for, they are virtually unsearchable and it is easy for them to get "miscoded" on OASIS (Once again, Kieth to the rescue... Go to the archive and search a keyword)... TSBs can be the real bone of contention - They are being superceded with alarming regularity and the older versions simply vanish off the face of the earth.... never to be seen again. (oh, there are some places where a cryptic description of a TSBs content may be archived, but there is too much chance that the salient points will be left out). As it stands, the only safe thing is to print off an OASIS report on each and every RO.... choose your symnptom codes carefully and wisely... and never turn your back towards anyone that administers warranty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It says to in TSB 5-12-03. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Yes it does. Thank you Gary I also attached the TSB so we have it after it disappears. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif SERVICE PROCEDURE 1. Remove the IPR valve and inspect for deformation of the screen (screen sucked into valve), a hole in the IPR screen, or metal debris covering over half of the IPR screen. a. If any of these conditions are present, change the engine oil and oil filter, then replace the HPP and IPR valve. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-04C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Thanks for that TSB number Gary. I knew it was in a TSB, I just couldn't remember the number. Here's the whole TSB: Printable View (7 KB) TSB 05-12-3 CRANK NO START, HARD START, RUNS ROUGH AT IDLE - 6.0L Publication Date: June 6, 2005 FORD: 2005 E-Series, Excursion, F-Super Duty This article supersedes TSB 04-25-18 to add a vehicle line and update the vehicle build date information. ISSUE: Some 2005 F-Super Duty and E-Series vehicles built prior to 4/15/2005 and Excursions built 1/10/2005 through 4/15/2005, all vehicles equipped with 6.0L engine, may exhibit a crank no start with low injection control pressure (ICP), hard start/long crank with slow to build ICP, or a rough idle with high ICP. ACTION: This condition may be due to the injection pressure regulator (IPR) and the high pressure oil pump (HPP). Refer to the following Service Procedure. SERVICE PROCEDURE Remove the IPR valve and inspect for deformation of the screen (screen sucked into valve), a hole in the IPR screen, or metal debris covering over half of the IPR screen. If any of these conditions are present, change the engine oil and oil filter, then replace the HPP and IPR valve. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-04C to replace the HPP or the IPR. If none of these conditions are present, continue with normal diagnostics. Start and run engine to confirm repair. If rough idle is still present, debris may have contaminated a fuel injector(s). Run normal injector diagnostics to identify specific injector(s) before replacement. PART NUMBER PART NAME 5C3Z-9C968-CA (CM-5126) IPR 5C4Z-9A543-AA High Pressure Oil Pump WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 051203A 2005 F-Super Duty/Excursion: Remove The Injection Pressure Regulator (IPR) Inspect No Damage Found Reinstall (IPR) (Do Not Use With 9438A, 9438A3, 9424A, 9968B, 9543A) 1.2 Hrs. 051203A 2005 E-Series: Remove The Injection Pressure Regulator (IPR) Inspect No Damage Found Reinstall (IPR) (Do Not Use With 9438A, 9438A3, 9424A, 9968B, 9543A) 1.1 Hrs. 051203B 2005 F-Super Duty/Excursion: Remove The Injection Pressure Regulator (IPR) Inspect And Replace The High Pressure Pump (HPP) And The (IPR) (Do Not Use With 9438A, 9438A3, 9424A, 9968B, 9543A) 5.8 Hrs. 051203B 2005 E-Series: Remove The Injection Pressure Regulator (IPR) Inspect And Replace The High Pressure Pump (HPP) And The (IPR) (Do Not Use With 9438A, 9438A3, 9424A, 9968B, 9543A) 7.5 Hrs. DEALER CODING BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE 9C968 X1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright © 2005 Ford Motor Company I call this a contradiction. But as long as this TSB exists, just refer to it in your diag stories to cover your arses. However, it is only good for 04 and 05 model years. But we know we are not crazy now. And I guess Keith already beat me to posting the TSB in a nicer way, But repetion never hurt anyone, did it? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 It seems by my reading of the Ford boards some dealers have coded to this TSB and/or Hotline recommendation and STILL have HPOP tickets charged back. Frankly, at this point, Ford is like the schoolyard bully. They can't be reasoned with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 They're talkin out of their ass or both side of the mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 This was the first one I had so it sticks in my mind. just after 05-12-3 came out I had a 60k mile truck that was towed in for a no start, I did all the diag per the wsm found no ICP pressure did the air test and pulled the IPR out to find the screen sucked in. I was jammed up and didn't have time for a HPOP job plus the customer was stuck so I gambled and put a new IPR in and tried it. It started and ran fine it has 156,000 miles now and has never had a HPOP. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif I personally would rather throw an IPR at it and try it first before diving into a HPOP replacement. If you walked into a room, flipped the light switch and the light didn't come on would you immediately rewire your house or would you change the bulb first???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 If you walked into a room, flipped the light switch and the light didn't come on would you immediately rewire your house or would you change the bulb first???? I'd probly just flip the TV on, and sit there in the dark /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif But I do agree with you. Regardless though, the tsb does say to replace the pump, so that's what we've been doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I see what you are getting at with your post. I would like to fill you in on my situation, though. A quick search shows Long Island comprises 1401 square miles and around 7.5 million people. Sturgis, SD (my home)is in Meade Co. and covers 3500 square miles and only 25k people. Figures to about 7 people per square mile density. Now, our oil/gas fields are by Gillette, Wy about 100 miles from our dealership. Gillette is in Crook Co. and covers 4800 square miles and 37.4K people. Only 8 people per square mile here. Incredibly, the entire populations of SD(782K) and WY(515K) combined amounts to around 1.3 million. Now, can you see why when I find a holed IPR screen or debris, "taking a chance" can have serious ramifications in lost money, effort and time far beyond the cost of a HPOP to the vehicle owner? Ford's short-sightedness is and will continue to cost them sales in this region. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 I agree when it comes to a sucked in screen as well or a slight amount of debris. I have had success with IPR's as well. But when you have a hole through the screen or it it is completely blocked with metal debris, I would have to say that the debris has taken it's toll on the HPOP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 And that Dwayne is the main concern: Where did the debris come from, what did it pass through on it's way to the IPR screen and what did it affect along the way? Tough call indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Ford's short-sightedness is and will continue to cost them sales in this region. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gifI couldn't agree more!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gifPleas don't get me wrong I have done my share of HPOP's when I found a holed screen and debris, That first one I spoke of had no sign of debris except the screen stuck in it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif. something caused it to fail but it was obviously not the HPOP if Ford apparently has piles of HPOP's that are not bad replaced under this SSM. what else can cause the IPR to fail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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