'06 Ambulance head-scratcher..

DamageINC · July 24, 2008

Ok kids, here we go. (I'll be long-winded)

'06 Ambulance, apparently this thing had been running all day. The drivers stopped in at a store for roughly a half hour, and shut the engine off when they parked. They go to leave - crank no start.

They end up having it towed to our shop.

I get to it and immediately I begin to wonder if I'm dealing with another trashed D-ring in the oil rail (seems to be very common all of a sudden with the '06MY 6.0's.). I go to the vehicle and try to start it - batteries are almost completely dead, KOEO the air bag light's flickering and whatnot.

They tell me that they didn't cank it long at all, so I'm just forced to assume here that the key was left on during the tow and possibly even longer.

I jump it, and it fires right up. Drive the vehicle around, monitor all my pids, everything looks spot-on. Get it good and hot and bring it back to the shop. Shut it off, go to fire it up - perfect. EOT is still over 200* and ICP ramps up almost immediately, even when hot. I air test the system and come up with absolutely nothing, I had the air hose conected for over a half hour.

EEC testing brings up a TON of codes, but I honestly want to believe that these codes are the result of the low voltage from the battery scenario.. the codes are:

P0231 Fuel pump secondary ckt low

P0562 System Low Voltage

P0606 PCM fault

P0611 FICM Performance/fault

P115A Fuel level low/forced limit power (tank is 3/4 full)

P1378 FICM supply voltage low

U0155 Lost communication with ICM

The shitty thing is that some of these codes could ABSOLUTELY be pertainant to a crank-no-start, but they are also very likely the result of the low voltage. I've cleared them and am going to see if they come back, but I simply can't get this thing to not start.

I've commanded opened/closed the EGR valve and watched the voltage, sure enough, there are no EGR codes but that valve is getting pretty sticky. I highly doubt that it was stuck badly enough to create the no start though.

They DO NOT want the vehicle returned until we are positive that it's been fixed, and Ican't blame them seeing that it is an ambulance. I don't want to start ripping open the High Pressure system in hopes that I'll find a problem, but that may be what I end up doing here.

Anyone got any advice?

Dave

Tony302600 · July 24, 2008

E-series engine harness's are notorious for int. normal crank no-starts. I have changed the harnesses on all of them to fix the int. nostart problems and none have come back since.

mchan68 · July 24, 2008

The P0611 and P1378 are the two in the list that I would chase. Since you mention that ICP ramps up good and fast, even while cranking when the engine is hot, I would stop there, and check into the FICM DTCs. What are your FICM_M, FICM_V, FICM_L PIDs at KOEO? How about the relay and/or fuse? Have you "wiggle-tested" the harness for possible chafing? We all know that E-series vans have had LOTS of wiring harness issues.

Jeff_ · July 24, 2008

I was just thinking, if you run out of ideas in the HP system, you may want to check the charging system. It seems I've had more than a few alternators with shorted diodes lately, especially now that it's hot. Some of them have similar symptoms where if all they do is idle they cant keep the batteries charged, and once system voltage drops below a set point it all shuts down. They develop enough of a surface charge to crank over for a while but not restart. I like to scope them with the ids VMM and look at tsb 06-19-12 to compare the pattern with the example pics. Just hooking up a volt meter to the batteries won't find it. I've probably had 6 of these this summer so far on F series. Every one I do gets the 140 Amp 6C2Z-10346-DA high output alternator weather they were equipped with it originally or not. There is only about a $10 price difference the last time I checked. If this is what you find you may want to think real hard before re-using the batteries...they don't seem to last very long after exposure to AC voltage.

DamageINC · July 24, 2008

Jeff, that's some great information to keep in mind for sure, however I don't think it applies to this particular vehicle right now - After a jump start, this thing has been running fine on it's own power for the last 2 days. No starting/voltage concerns whatsoever, and even at idle the system voltage hovers near 14 volts.

I personally haven't run into harness issues yet with these but our other guy here has had a few and I know they're a bit of a frequent failure point when this concern is present. I think I'm gonna listen to Tony and mchan here for right now and spend some quality time with the harness...

Dave

Tony302600 · July 24, 2008

Jeff, that's some great information to keep in mind for sure, however I don't think it applies to this particular vehicle right now - After a jump start, this thing has been running fine on it's own power for the last 2 days. No starting/voltage concerns whatsoever, and even at idle the system voltage hovers near 14 volts.

I personally haven't run into harness issues yet with these but our other guy here has had a few and I know they're a bit of a frequent failure point when this concern is present. I think I'm gonna listen to Tony and mchan here for right now and spend some quality time with the harness...

Dave

Dont spend too much time, you're not suppost to fix the harness, ure suppost to replace it... and i quote a IH and hotline engineer!

DamageINC · July 24, 2008

Oh I know, I ended up leaving it running and "massaging" the harness with a prybar in a bunch of various locations - nothing happened at all. They decided that they want it back and now the vehicle's leaving. I suppose as long as it doesn't quit on 'em when they need it, I'm fine with that, lol.

I really only have maybe 2 hours into looking into the whole ticket so I'm not totally out on my ass here, I did all that I really could be expected to do and so far it's all inconclusive.

I'll keep y'all posted.

Dave

Brad Clayton · July 24, 2008

I just got finished replacing a harness on one of these. I usually get a cam/crank related code when the harness goes out due to the shielding rubbing thru the wires in the bundle near the pcm.

I have seen the fuel pump code crop and actually be a bad fuel pump on these and a few inertia switches on the F-seires.

OHNO60 · July 24, 2008

I with you on the engine harness! changed tons of them on ambulances, repaired them all. believe it was a 6c2z-12b637-UA. Had all those DTC"S too.

Shlep · July 25, 2008

As with the rest of the guys here, done about 6 of these in E-series and all of them had harness issues, usually the codes you have listed and maybe more. If it comes back check the trans harness at the back of the engine for damage, more then likely it'll be cut on the insulation.