Tony302600 Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Actually, our 126 numbers keep getting better. We're on such a heightened awareness level right now that we're killing everyone around us, right now I think our 6 month rolling average for all the diesel repair areas are still between -.3 and -.7, so we're way green on that one. It just sucks to get bitten like that. And the real horseshit thing is that our SM is threatening to charge US (the tech) for any losses incurred for rejected claims due to improper paperwork and/or comebacks. Personally, I have no problem with that, as long as I get paid the fucking door rate for my work here. Otherwise, I think it's flat out absurd to even consider that. Dave See, I have an issue with the way your dealership is run. You are told do what is needed on the truck, while the rest of us, are doing what you're suppost to do. Your low diesel numbers have a trickling effect on other dealers. If you guys are very low then ford starts coming down on the rest of us that are doing the right thing. Ford has warned our dealer about our diesel being high.. I said you dumbasses, its because we get shit in from other dealers who also have high diesel 126's so they only do the bare minimum, bcuz (im sure) their service managers breathing down their necks about doing as little as it takes. They replace a failed part...BUT WHY DID IT FAIL. I can't count how many egr oil coolers we have done and the truck has just been to another dealer who just did the egr cooler, not the oil cooler. Or the best one.." replaced 2 injectors " WHY DID YOU REPLACE THE INJECTORS.... THE FUCKING FUEL PRESSURE IS 10PSI below spec when i drove it, why didnt you figure out the fuel pump was weak...now our dealership has to do the pump and 4 injectors, because low FP took out the whole bank. That fucks our warranty up, but we want to keep the customer happy. We get a lot of construction trucks who's drivers bitch about other dealers, and we tell them we'll take care of them, it's not always the dealers fault. The business is on a real downward spiral...and warranty clerks are the problem. But dealer's who dick around with warranty claims so they can be low are also at fault. If everything was claimed as was suppost to, and certain dealers werent so huffy/puffy over winning presidents award, then i think that EVERYONES diesel warranty #'s should fall in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Has anyone ever seen the episode of the Simpsons where Homer writes a check to the music man? He looks at the guy and goes BO-YOY-YOYINNNNG! shop keeper says to him "Why did you make that noise?" /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif That's the warranty claim I am currently working on. EGR cooler recently replaced for white smoke concern. Found ECT/EOT spread of 25* idling in the shop. Customer brought this truck to us with the complaint of the hose (egr cooler return) fucking melted off the degas bottle. Found so far, broken fan shroud (upper and lower), broken fan stator, loose turbo bolts, missing fan stator bolts, missing various other bolts. I have to replace the fan stator & shroud at MINIMUM to perform this repair properly. And the updated fan shroud? Requires replacement of the rad. I bet they're gonna tell me this is over-repair. Like Homer said. Boiiiiiiing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 Originally Posted By: DamageINC Actually, our 126 numbers keep getting better. We're on such a heightened awareness level right now that we're killing everyone around us, right now I think our 6 month rolling average for all the diesel repair areas are still between -.3 and -.7, so we're way green on that one. It just sucks to get bitten like that. And the real horseshit thing is that our SM is threatening to charge US (the tech) for any losses incurred for rejected claims due to improper paperwork and/or comebacks. Personally, I have no problem with that, as long as I get paid the fucking door rate for my work here. Otherwise, I think it's flat out absurd to even consider that. Dave See, I have an issue with the way your dealership is run. You are told do what is needed on the truck, while the rest of us, are doing what you're suppost to do. Your low diesel numbers have a trickling effect on other dealers. If you guys are very low then ford starts coming down on the rest of us that are doing the right thing. Ford has warned our dealer about our diesel being high.. I said you dumbasses, its because we get shit in from other dealers who also have high diesel 126's so they only do the bare minimum, bcuz (im sure) their service managers breathing down their necks about doing as little as it takes. They replace a failed part...BUT WHY DID IT FAIL. I can't count how many egr oil coolers we have done and the truck has just been to another dealer who just did the egr cooler, not the oil cooler. Or the best one.." replaced 2 injectors " WHY DID YOU REPLACE THE INJECTORS.... THE FUCKING FUEL PRESSURE IS 10PSI below spec when i drove it, why didnt you figure out the fuel pump was weak...now our dealership has to do the pump and 4 injectors, because low FP took out the whole bank. That fucks our warranty up, but we want to keep the customer happy. We get a lot of construction trucks who's drivers bitch about other dealers, and we tell them we'll take care of them, it's not always the dealers fault. The business is on a real downward spiral...and warranty clerks are the problem. But dealer's who dick around with warranty claims so they can be low are also at fault. If everything was claimed as was suppost to, and certain dealers werent so huffy/puffy over winning presidents award, then i think that EVERYONES diesel warranty #'s should fall in line. I can't say that I disagree at all, it's just weird the way we do things I guess. We don't have repeat repairs really, it's little things here and there that keep our numbers low. You'd be surprised how little $$ it takes to send a warranty ticket through the ceiling of a 126 analysis - small things like a tube of silicone on a rear end repair, or maybe in our case, to seal up an HPOP cover, that put you $13 over the next shop can KILL your 126 numbers! The hardest part for us to keep clean is the $ PER R.O section, but there are also ways of fucking with that number.. there often times when customers bring their diesels still under base warranty in for simple oil changes, we'll nitpick SMALL little things that need to be addressed and write up a warranty RO - tell the customer that we've spotted a possible source of a headache and addressed the problem for him free of charge under warranty. And then we have a couple very low dollar diesel warranty ROs to help counterbalance the $6,000 head gasket/cooler/turbo combo platter job going on in my bay. the customer leaves happy and feeling good about the service because we took care of things before he knew they were wrong. The thing is, I always end up driving the snot out of these things before AND after my repair to verify that future issues won't be there. I won't say that I under-repair anything, because I really don't. There are certain conditions where we'll be doing a customer a favor maybe, AWA's, and/or maybe the truck has slight mods that we don't believe were the cause of failure but still pose a threat, and we'll simply just take care of the problem at hand as a nice gesture.. But we don't do 'the bare minimum' to keep the $ per RO section low, and our Repairs per 1000 section stays in good standing. But, in the end, it still sucks balls. Flat out. It's hard to explain, but, people drive past 3 or 4 other Ford dealerships to bring their trucks to us. I'm sure there's a good reason for that, and I know that we aren't boning the customer with the way we do the work. We're just boning ourselves. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 But, in the end, it still sucks balls. Flat out. It's hard to explain, but, people drive past 3 or 4 other Ford dealerships to bring their trucks to us. I'm sure there's a good reason for that, and I know that we aren't boning the customer with the way we do the work. We're just boning ourselves. I have had the same problem for many years. I am currently working on an ambulance that has been to 4 separate dealers and none of them have have left a good impression on the customer, and now me. Long story short, it's a rotted out fuel tank requiring fuel lines, secondary filter housing, lines and of course all 8 injectors. There are missing fasteners, loose fasteners, broken fasteners, poorly repaired broken bolts, broken fan stator... this is why they seek out certain dealers. On the flip side, I have also seen a few customers migrate away from my dealer because of long completion times due to being over-booked and under staffed over the last several years. I have also had a few technicians working with me that have caused problems. I'll leave it at that. When it comes to the numbers, I could care less. I take care of the customers, I repair the vehicles and I follow the rules. Nobody is perfect but that does not mean we stop trying. Though I am mindful of the big picture, I don't need a report to dictate or affect how I perform my duties simply because the numbers don't fall in line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 And that's how us diesel guys work in the truck shop...we explained the situation to our manager and he has our backs 100% and it shows from the surveys(the truck guys that returned them). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Keith... you have said it about as plainly and succinctly as anyone possibly can.... The turn around times at our store can be borderline ridiculous... but, on top of trying to the best, most complete job we possibly can, we are also fixing the "legacy" that others seem to leave in their wake.... Broken stators.... we see them broken at the bottom because a back up wrench wasn't used on the stand-offs.... or we see them broken at the top because either the shroud wasn't removed when the intake was - or the part with the top (nutless) stud wasn't removed (which would either be the intake elbow or the EGRTP flange)... someone causing grief because they are trying to be fast before they thought of being good... Stripped out and/or missing VC gaskets.... that's what happens when you use an impact or an air ratchet to assemble stuff...... especially aluminum stuff. In my addled old brain, some of this stuff is coming back around that wonderful viscious circle.... Flat rate was born of a need to quantify a labour operation.... standardize it, if you will.... Good guys could beat the flat rate time... and they could do it while ensuring that the task was done properly (remembering that 30 years ago we didn't place as much importance on our torque wrenches as we do now - and we could get away with it because most everythoing was heftier and more than was needed). Not so good guys wanted a piece of this "gain time" too.. and shoddy work was born ( yeah, OK, there are thieves waiting around every corner.... but they didn't used to work in the same shop as you). Times get a little tight and a lot of the "smart" guys head for greener pastures - outside of this industry... At the same time, gain time isn't a "bonus" any more.... Techs begin to "expect" it... much like a waiter or waitress expects a tip.... "Well, ain't this a rip.... all I can do is break even on this job...". Remembering that a lot of the good guys have left openings that get filled with a lot of "not so good" guys.... I would hope that everyone can see where this is going... Long story made short.... we are all painted with the same brush... (a saying for the good sayings thread)..... unfortunately, there are bad apples in this barrel (another saying for the sayings thread).... If there's one bad apple in the barrel... they're probably all bad.... Ford is simply doing what the public has been doing for many years.... doubting us.... given that we have allowed this shit to happen in OUR TRADE, there's every chance we may deserve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ford is simply doing what the public has been doing for many years.... doubting us.... given that we have allowed this shit to happen in OUR TRADE, there's every chance we may deserve it. Speaking of denied claims. Stupid strikes again! My only certified diesel tech performed TSB 08-07-3 and obviously did not perform the diagnostics properly. Had to go back in to replace the oil cooler and expected to claim an extra 5 hours of M-time to do it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif Warranty Administrator "light" gets the full BS story from this guy and figures it will fly. When the claim bounces the real Warranty Administrator asks me why or how this happens. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Sometimes we really do deserve it. I now have two new issues to try to correct. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Keith... you have said it about as plainly and succinctly as anyone possibly can.... The turn around times at our store can be borderline ridiculous... but, on top of trying to the best, most complete job we possibly can, we are also fixing the "legacy" that others seem to leave in their wake.... Broken stators.... we see them broken at the bottom because a back up wrench wasn't used on the stand-offs.... or we see them broken at the top because either the shroud wasn't removed when the intake was - or the part with the top (nutless) stud wasn't removed (which would either be the intake elbow or the EGRTP flange)... someone causing grief because they are trying to be fast before they thought of being good... Stripped out and/or missing VC gaskets.... that's what happens when you use an impact or an air ratchet to assemble stuff...... especially aluminum stuff. In my addled old brain, some of this stuff is coming back around that wonderful viscious circle.... Flat rate was born of a need to quantify a labour operation.... standardize it, if you will.... Good guys could beat the flat rate time... and they could do it while ensuring that the task was done properly (remembering that 30 years ago we didn't place as much importance on our torque wrenches as we do now - and we could get away with it because most everythoing was heftier and more than was needed). Not so good guys wanted a piece of this "gain time" too.. and shoddy work was born ( yeah, OK, there are thieves waiting around every corner.... but they didn't used to work in the same shop as you). Times get a little tight and a lot of the "smart" guys head for greener pastures - outside of this industry... At the same time, gain time isn't a "bonus" any more.... Techs begin to "expect" it... much like a waiter or waitress expects a tip.... "Well, ain't this a rip.... all I can do is break even on this job...". Remembering that a lot of the good guys have left openings that get filled with a lot of "not so good" guys.... I would hope that everyone can see where this is going... Long story made short.... we are all painted with the same brush... (a saying for the good sayings thread)..... unfortunately, there are bad apples in this barrel (another saying for the sayings thread).... If there's one bad apple in the barrel... they're probably all bad.... Ford is simply doing what the public has been doing for many years.... doubting us.... given that we have allowed this shit to happen in OUR TRADE, there's every chance we may deserve it. I have always been the type that if I could turn 100% I was happy. Anything above that was gravy, hell 45hrs a week made me happy when working 40...but when I took my 1.5 year sabatical from Aug-03 to early 05 to "kill" my dad /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif the "business" changed so much I couldn't get with-in ear-shot of 100%. Went from 70/30 CP/WAR to 5/95 CP/WAR...if I broke 35 hrs it was probably a clerical mistake the summer of 05...or that meant I worked 6 full days to get that 35 hrs. Now I realize I should have toughed it out...you guys have pretty much figured-out all the fixes for the 6.0L. Plus enough of us quit that the rest of you got raises to make the job worth it...I had the chance to go back to my "old" dealer in Raleigh in late spring of 07? I think, but just couldn't make myself go... I applaud those of you that stuck it out. Better men than I! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Originally Posted By: Jim Warman Ford is simply doing what the public has been doing for many years.... doubting us.... given that we have allowed this shit to happen in OUR TRADE, there's every chance we may deserve it. Speaking of denied claims. Stupid strikes again! My only certified diesel tech performed TSB 08-07-3 and obviously did not perform the diagnostics properly. Had to go back in to replace the oil cooler and expected to claim an extra 5 hours of M-time to do it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/boink3.gif Warranty Administrator "light" gets the full BS story from this guy and figures it will fly. When the claim bounces the real Warranty Administrator asks me why or how this happens. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Sometimes we really do deserve it. I now have two new issues to try to correct. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif That wouldn't fly here.... WPI is actually doing a real good job of getting the correct time for the correct job. They sucked in the beginning but they are doing better. I'm actually getting more then i thought i would be getting on a job. They usually call and say, you forgot to add time for this and that and its getting better. But some jobs you cant win. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I ended up claiming a WHACK of extra M-Time on that van I told you guys about, the wiring harness was routed through the hole in the intake underneath the alternator, and around the ac compressor, NOT behind it, etc etc. I had to take the harness out from around the intake, then remove the compressor and all that other junk to route the harness properly, not including the time to take off the aftermarket compressor drive junk for the refrigerator box, and find bolts for all the bolts missing. Customer is happy as poop that his air conditioning works now (I plugged the clutch coil in) This truck got an EGR cooler in March. That's all. Nothing else. Just EGR cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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