LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Quote: 1226 - A REVIEW OF WARRANTY RETURNED 6.0L HIGH PRESSURE PUMPS HAS FOUND MANY TO BE NOT DEFECTIVE. PLEASE REFER TO TSB 08-09-09 FOR COMPLETE HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM DIAGNOSTICS. NOTE: IF THE IPR VALVE SCREEN HAS FOREIGN MATERIAL, THEN REMOVE THE FOREIGN MATERIAL AND CONTINUE WITH IPR DIAGNOSTICS IN TSB 06-13-03 OR HIGH PRESSURE FUEL SYSTEM TSB 08-09-09. IF THE IPR VALVE SCREEN IS FOUND TO BE DAMAGED THEN INSTALL A NEW IPR VALVE. THE PRESENCE OF DEBRIS ON THE SCREEN DOES NOT WARRANT HPP OR IPR VALVE REPLACEMENT. PUBLICATIONS ARE BEING UPDATED TO REFLECT THIS. Nothing like having to do the job repeatedly, so much for FRFT /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Ford doesn't spare any oportunity to tell us that we MUST repair not only the symptoms.... but we must also repair the cause of the symptoms. We have been treated to a series of notifications from Ma Ford about how a whole array of parts returned under warranty are actually still good (ever tried getting the GR1-120 to fail a bettery you KNOW is bad?) for several years.... I think the aboriginals had it right - "Ford man speak with forked tongue...". As the middleman, the blame will land squarely on our shoulders. FWIW.... if the HPOP had been selected with a higher capacity (volume) in mind, the high pressure oil system could have leaked like a seive and the engine would still run well - albeit with a higher than normal IPR%.... I could see a reduced power strategy along with a MIL indicating "IPR duty cycle higher than expected". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Ford doesn't spare any oportunity to tell us that we MUST repair not only the symptoms.... but we must also repair the cause of the symptoms. We have been treated to a series of notifications from Ma Ford about how a whole array of parts returned under warranty are actually still good (ever tried getting the GR1-120 to fail a bettery you KNOW is bad?) for several years.... I think the aboriginals had it right - "Ford man speak with forked tongue...". As the middleman, the blame will land squarely on our shoulders... no matter what we do or believe. FWIW.... if the HPOP had been selected with a higher capacity (volume) in mind, the high pressure oil system could have leaked like a seive and the engine would still run well - albeit with a higher than normal IPR%.... I could see a reduced power strategy along with a MIL indicating "IPR duty cycle higher than expected". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 if the HPOP had been selected with a higher capacity (volume) in mind, the high pressure oil system could have leaked like a seive and the engine would still run well - albeit with a higher than normal IPR%.... I could see a reduced power strategy along with a MIL indicating "IPR duty cycle higher than expected". Damn you Jim, there you go again using common sense. Don't you know that's not allowed? I agree totally, but if that higher displacement pump cost $.01 more than the pump being used, the bean counters would can it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OHNO60 Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 funny you mention it, had a no start ended up being hp connector, anyway when tearing town found the egr cooler clogged tighter than a clams ass in october.explained no extra labor just parts only replacement, rejected. They explained no symptoms present now. Tryed explaining the truck was towed in a crank no start and we were not sure how it ran, but it didn't matter. "eyes straight ahead, its not your check book" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Thats a great idea desiging a engine that could have a failure and still run. Do you think they think of this stuff when they are desiging airplanes? I have thought for years that if modern day gas engines had a redundant fuel pump they would be so much more reliable. Well I guess electric fuel pumps have gotten better over the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I have thought for years that if modern day gas engines had a redundant fuel pump they would be so much more reliable. We don't need a second redundant fuel pump, we need a quality first pump that's not designed (or approved) by the bean counters. Fuel pumps have been a pattern failure across the board on all American cars, and one of the biggest thorns in my ass. Have you ever seen, or picked up, a BMW fuel pump? Roller bearings, 5 lbs in weight, $700 price tag, but you get what you pay for and they rarely fail. How many OE pumps have you cut open to find the root cause of failure? I've cut open dozens: Big 3 pumps- crimped housings made from the same material as toothpaste tubes, no bearings- the shaft rides in a plastic bushing, rollers, housings, brushes and commutators made of crap. They are designed to last 3/36 and that's it, a disgrace to the American engineering talent. I have heard the production costs on these pumps is less than a dollar. In 25 years of running an independent shop, I replaced THREE Jap fuel pumps. We replaced so many GM and Ford pumps that we stocked them (OE box from the dealer, not parts store crap that's even worse). And why has the consumer flocked to import vehicles? It's a fucking disgrace. US management has screwed things up so badly it will take decades to straighten it out (if it can be done). Why are there almost no diesel cars in the US? Because people STILL remember the GM 5.7 POS from the 70's. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Wow, must be a rough morning for the Bruceter, first post i've seen in a while without a grin at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Wow, must be a rough morning for the Bruceter, first post i've seen in a while without a grin at the bottom. Good call. The hard drive grenaded today on my main PC, and Anthony's teaching a new air brake class in a couple of weeks that's not done yet. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Bruce, that is the best avatar I've ever seen /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Bruce, that is the best avatar I've ever seen /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif I second that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherH Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I have heard it said before, but I still agree--let them build a few 6.0s with these supposedly "good" warranty return parts and see how far they get. Personally I take offense to someone on the other end opening a returned part box up and slapping it on a bench tester that was never designed to simulate real world heat, cold, load, no-load, and other conditions and then making the call that it tested fine and was needlessly replaced! How many sensors, electrical parts, etc. have you tested with a primitive WSM or PCED ohmeter test that indicated they were good, but more advanced testing revealed the failure with the part? I doubt that they are proving these parts with any testing that isn't in the book. Plus, if the IPR has a hole in the screen, doesn't that mean the debris went through the pump to get there? Tripping over a dollar to save a dime isn't worth it. Besides what about the customer satisfaction when we under repair a truck due to the warranty screws being tightened down on us and a few thousand miles later its back in the shop again with more failures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 I have heard it said before, but I still agree--let them build a few 6.0s with these supposedly "good" warranty return parts and see how far they get. Personally I take offense to someone on the other end opening a returned part box up and slapping it on a bench tester that was never designed to simulate real world heat, cold, load, no-load, and other conditions and then making the call that it tested fine and was needlessly replaced! How many sensors, electrical parts, etc. have you tested with a primitive WSM or PCED ohmeter test that indicated they were good, but more advanced testing revealed the failure with the part? I doubt that they are proving these parts with any testing that isn't in the book. Plus, if the IPR has a hole in the screen, doesn't that mean the debris went through the pump to get there? Tripping over a dollar to save a dime isn't worth it. Besides what about the customer satisfaction when we under repair a truck due to the warranty screws being tightened down on us and a few thousand miles later its back in the shop again with more failures? It's because shady techs are just slapping a shitload of parts on trucks. We have one here, just doesnt understand diesels or something, the used car guy now. He asks us a million questions, we tell him there is a TSB for that exact concern sounds like the HP fitting is bad. He changes, the fitting, pump, ipr, and icp. People that don't care or just don't understand are ruining the warranty system and tehn Ford doesn't trust us and takes it out on all the dealers. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif I've seen it a million times when checking the OASIS, other dealers throwing 10-20 parts on a truck that still doesn't fix it. End's up in our hand's turning out to be a simple repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherH Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 I hear you man--I suppose there are always a few bad apples out there. It makes the rest of us look bad though and really gets under my skin when I honestly take a lot of pride in my work and do my best to fix things right the first time and not to put unnecessary parts on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkachma Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 we have a senior/master tech here that only why he knows how to fix anything is to replace parts, no testing what so ever and it always seems like every part he replaces is faulty, its amazing how many faulty parts it takes to fix one cocern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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