kevin phillips Posted September 4, 2008 Share Posted September 4, 2008 I have a 03 6.0 which has became a real headache (septic tanker).Ran ids tests code p2285 only.Checked and found icp full of oil and connector damaged.Replaced icp and connector and vehicle starts ok but when rpm's reach around 2000 the truck hesitates and the truck bellows out heavy fuel smoke and will not rev any higher. Ran new fuel pressure test at secondary housing 50 psi during concern. Power balance is a real mess at random during concern but no cylinders really stand out as faulty.At idle and up to 2000 rpm's the truck seems normal with very little smoke. Relitive compression test passes and egr test passes.Anyone have any ideas on chasing this problem down down,sugestions, ect.I've tried everything short of pulling the manifolds to try to see if it's a certain cylinder with a injector issue.The pced is leading me in circles and i've got a day in checking it out with no luck.Fuel quality is good /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif.Thanks for any advice and wisdom for the upcoming day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 5, 2008 Share Posted September 5, 2008 Recheck the wiring at the ICP sensor. I have accidentally installed an ICP pigtail or two with wires switched. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif It is likely you have done the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 it's possible i guess,i'll recheck it this evening,thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 5, 2008 Author Share Posted September 5, 2008 Wiring ok and correct,I swear it's like a injector is just dumping to much fuel at higher rpm's. Would unplugging the injectors one at a time be worth a shot or useless? any other things i might be overlooking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff_E Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 I don't know if this is what you're dealing with, but you may want to check out THIS ARTICLE (Thanks Keith /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif)because it is a very easy test to do, and will at least rule some things out. It seems the early build 03's (prior to the injector clevis improvement) are more susceptible to this problem, I had two in two weeks. Although mine both exhibited a miss on at least 1 cylinder at any RPM, it got noticeably worse at higher rpm's...And they both made a TON of smoke. If this is your problem you would be well served to recommend replacing the entire bank of injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Kevin... I'm trying to get a grip on your use of the term "hesitates".... Used in context, the term means that the engine "hesitates" (or pauses) momentarily before responding to an increase in throttle angle. However, I get the feeling that what you are describing is rough running due to the engine "dropping cylinders"??? Sorry to sound like I'm busting your chops but if we all speak clearly and in the same language... life would be much easier... I'm not sure where the smoke might fit in - I don't recall seeing any in the few I've tried this with.... If it is dropping cylinders in the no load 1800~2000ish PSI ICP range, try taking command of the IPR and manipulate it while the concern is happening to see if you can affect a change... I have seen a few early build engines with some sort of concern with the HPOP check valves in the oil rails that will have the engine running rough..... Along with the smoke (or lack of) issue, all of the ones that I have seen with the concern I mention would rev past the 2000 rpm mark with no problem.... Is the smoke you are seeing light coloured or is it black? If it isn't revving past 2000, I'd consider the possibility of an intake or exhaust restriction before most anything else.... The 6.0 seems to run 'pretty good' in negative fuel pressure situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 Thanks Keith, I haven't tried that but i will monday and see what happens and update. I've had some that were no starts due to combustion into fuel or hard starts but i can't remember one like this but it could be the case.thanks again /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif The sewage in the back may be hindering my thought process due to these 85 degree days. Jim,thanks and i'll try taking over the ipr,It's not a momentary thing it's a constant problem at 2000 and hesitate was the wrong way of saying it. I guess it's better described as a constant misfire with heavy grayish/black smoke and no increase of rpm's above 2000 cold or hot. Below 2000 rpm's the engine runs fine with good throttle response and no codes now.fuel pressure and quality seems ok. Would the bubbles show up in the yellow hose back to the tank during a fuel test with the valve open ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Will the problem happen with the EGR valve manually closed? I'm going to assume that the fuel supply is free of air bubbles. I have seen injectors cause this. We had one doing this and we found that when unplugging the injector it would not drop on the power balance test because it was leaking and still supplying fuel to the cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 At 2000 rpm, does the engine seem like it hits the wall? Like a gasoline engine-style rev limiter? And just before 2000, all seems fine? And if you floor the accelerator, the engine jumps around like it wants to come out of the engine compartment? If so, it may be the same issue I had with an '03 late last year... The one with the PCM CMPO signal getting messed up, and the FICM killing cylinders... Here's the link: Long crank time on an '03 Good luck, dude... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 No air in the fuel while cranking over and looking at secondary filter housing. It is really a smokeshow and acts like it hits a wall and misses. The air in fuel test is all i got to do today, but i hope to dabble tommorow with it. I have a 03 250 locked up and found about 40 quarts of fuel in the pan and number one injector dumping fuel into crankcase but it was to late for it.Yanked the glow plugs and it's still siezed so i have plenty on the table for now. I'll update if i find anything on it and i'll check the other things you guys mentioned.Thanks for the input.I did think about churning the tank today when the sm asked me when i was going to get done with the shit truck.lol /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 ive seen injectors due this often very same concern but i would check map,baro,ebp keo all within .5v of each other if pass good road test in parking lot if need be and check back pressure exaust if its got a cat inline and readings wacky try removing it or unbolt fron turbo and bottom and try running truck found that to be a problem with this trashy fuel we all get.... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 The map ebp and baro are in spec,unhooked exhaust,no change and the ckp,cmp,seems ok on ids and i'm leaning toward a injector issue now. Found out today from customer that the truck was serviced by his mechanic about two weeks ago and that it kept stalling with him afterward. Anyways, they drove the truck a few days before it quit completely and they found that they hadn't got the primary fuel filter cap back on good. They said it quit stalling on the road after tightning the cap, but that the smokeshow and running problems had started then and went downhill from there. Could the cap being loose have caused the injectors to be damaged? He said it diddn't leak but it was pulling in air into the fuel by the cap. The fuel pressure was good so i don't think it damaged the pump but i'm wondering if the injectors took a beating and thats what causing the issue now.Any ideas, opinions thanks guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Could the cap being loose have caused the injectors to be damaged? ABSOLUTELY 100% /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Originally Posted By: kevin phillips Could the cap being loose have caused the injectors to be damaged? ABSOLUTELY 100% /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer2.gif +100000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin phillips Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Replaced four injectors today,not perfect but waaaaaaaaaaaay better,thanks guys going to replace the others when they arrive but i consider it fixed by the improvement four did.Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The load pid at idle would have been a good one to pay attention to. There was another topic about the load pid being a good indicator for faulty injectors. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif I don't remember who said it, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif but they indicated that about 40 %load at idle was the limit for pooched injectors. I have been paying close attention to this PID ever since I read that. Haven't found any bad ones yet because of it, But I know what good looks like. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/coffee.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 That was my tid-bit of info, both my FSE and an INTEC guy confirmed this. The 40% was for load at idle which likely indicates that the "set" of injectors is degraded. Ever replace a few injectors on a truck and then have the remaining cylinders start showing contribution and misfire issues? You see this a lot with 7.3L trucks that have had fuel contamination issues like failed WIF sensors and rusty filter housings or rusty FUEL TANKS with clogged filters, pick-up screens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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