GregH Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Got one here that has me scratching my head a bit... '05 F-350, manual transmission, 98,000 miles. Towed in as a crank, no start. Codes in memory - P2617, P2269, P1000. Batteries are about dead. Charge the batteries and take some readings. Cranking data: RPM - 140, IPR - 84%, ICPV - 1.0V, ICP - 800psi, SYNC and FICMSYNC - yes, FUELPW - 6.4ms, FICM powers are correct - 11V and 48V, No smoke from tailpipe, MAP BARO and EBP at KOEO are within .5psi, ICPV at KOEO - .24V Base oil pressure reads on the dash gauge. Fuel pressure is 55psi at KOEO Fuel looks good - will make a piece of paper burn quickly - comparable to fuel drained from a like vehicle. Fuel is making it all the way to the right side cylinder head - crack the banjo bolt there and there is a fuel spray at KOEO. No fuel knock or anything when cranking - just spins on the starter. Unplug #1, plug in a homemade injector tester (two light bulbs wired in place of the solenoids on an old injector pigtail), lights flash when cranking engine. Engine will start and run on ether. Once engine RPM is over 1000, engine will stay running on it's own. I have to pat the throttle to keep it alive, but it will run as long as I let it. Got a little heat in the engine (EOT over 100F) but it still won't start after cutting it off... Anything else I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Got one here that has me scratching my head a bit... '05 F-350, manual transmission, 98,000 miles. Towed in as a crank, no start. Codes in memory - P2617, P2269, P1000. Batteries are about dead. Charge the batteries and take some readings. Cranking data: RPM - 140, IPR - 84%, ICPV - 1.0V, ICP - 800psi, SYNC and FICMSYNC - yes, FUELPW - 6.4ms, FICM powers are correct - 11V and 48V, No smoke from tailpipe, MAP BARO and EBP at KOEO are within .5psi, ICPV at KOEO - .24V Base oil pressure reads on the dash gauge. Fuel pressure is 55psi at KOEO Fuel looks good - will make a piece of paper burn quickly - comparable to fuel drained from a like vehicle. Fuel is making it all the way to the right side cylinder head - crack the banjo bolt there and there is a fuel spray at KOEO. No fuel knock or anything when cranking - just spins on the starter. Unplug #1, plug in a homemade injector tester (two light bulbs wired in place of the solenoids on an old injector pigtail), lights flash when cranking engine. This is a good sign- it tells us that the ICP, PCM, Sync, and basics are in place. Usually when I see this, it's injector time. Engine will start and run on ether. Tsk, tsk. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Once engine RPM is over 1000, engine will stay running on it's own. I have to pat the throttle to keep it alive, but it will run as long as I let it. Got a little heat in the engine (EOT over 100F) but it still won't start after cutting it off... Anything else I'm missing? Cranking RPM is pretty low- a warm 6.0 cranks at 215, my minimum standard is 175. Once it's running, is IPR traveling down towards the mid 20's? I'm a little concerned that your ICP is only 1.0v as they'll usually build 1.5v cranking, but that might be the low cranking RPM. Can you do KOER and injector buzz too? When pulling codes, it's important to do ALL 4 DTC STEPS, which is one of the most overlooked items in the diag sheet. (KOEO OD test, Continuous codes, KOER, buzz. You ain't doing 4 things, you aint gettin' all of the codes.) If you have a noid light active, and no smoke from the tailpipe, your injectors are likely toast from bad fuel and sticking plungers in the barrels. You might be able to verify this by filling the secondary FF with Stanadyne or PM-17A and see if it acts better. 90% of the time, this will change the symptom or make it disappear altogether. Double check your fuel quality at the secondary FF by removing and inspecting the FF and fuel quite closely. Clear DTC's and see if the 2617 returns, it might be a ghost code caused by low cranking RPM. I'd hang a couple of batteries in it and get the RPM up, too. Any history on LOF? REALLY bad oil might cause this. My gut is bad injectors. Good Luck! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/coffee.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 icp is too low. i don't care what they say about the 500psi rule, they will almost never start below 1000psi(unless you hold the starter for 60seconds or more). does icp spike and level off, or just a straight 800psi? if icp doesn't come up with some new batteries/more cranking rpm i would start there. unplug the ficm relay and see if it jumps up any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 icp is too low. i don't care what they say about the 500psi rule, they will almost never start below 1000psi(unless you hold the starter for 60seconds or more). does icp spike and level off, or just a straight 800psi? if icp doesn't come up with some new batteries/more cranking rpm i would start there. unplug the ficm relay and see if it jumps up any more. I agree the ICP is a bit low, but if it was too low, the injector "noid" light wouldn't flash. This 6.0 PSD scope wave shows the injectors being enabled at 1.1v, which is about 700psi. Note it was cranking for about .5 second when the injectors were enabled. I have another graph showing the injectors enabled at 300psi when a DTC is set. (with a DTC, the PCM is no longer looking at ICP to enable the injectors) /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 Thanks for the advice, guys. It'll be a few days before I get back onto it. Got a no start on an '03 that was dragged in from another shop.. Straight up high pressure leak - just a matter of finding it... I'll report back when I've checked a few more things on the '05.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregH Posted October 23, 2008 Author Share Posted October 23, 2008 Found it. Hole in the IPR screen... Got back to it yesterday, and it wouldn't generate over 500psi while cranking. I backed up and tried an air test on the ICP system. Minor leak coming from the center rear of the engine. Accessed the IPR connector, and plugged my jumper harness into it. Full fielding the IPR would make the air leak stop sometimes, and barely affect it at other times. The charactaristic "pop" that the IPR makes when you connect the jumper seemed a bit duller than normal. Remove the IPR and saw that there was a hole in the screen. Replaced the IPR and hit it with the air again, and now it performs normally. As for completing the repair, it seems that there is a gross mileage discrepancy... So now the truck is caught up in red tape... Thanks for the help! I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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