Keith Browning Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 These are some useful charts that are from Motorcraft. From time to time I need to look up information like this and never think to look on the Motorcraft web site so here they are for us to reference. Ethylene Glycol-based Engine Coolant Protection Chart. Service Coolant Usage Chart. R-134a Refrigerant Charge Capacities in Oz. . Refrigerant Compressor Oil Capacities in Fluid Oz. / Cc. Oil Applications And Crankcase Capacities Charts. Lubricant Applications And Capacities Chart. Automatic Transmission Fluid Chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempstead Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I know what the charts say about pre 1999 vehicles, but has anyone put gold coolant in where green was? I am just curious, I know that with the green coolant we were suppose to add the vc-8 coolant additive on 7.3l's and the gold did away with having to do that. I was thinking of switching to gold coolant in my 93' 7.3l idi to do away with having to add the vc-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I can't comment on an IDI but IH warned not to put ELC coolants in earlier (pre-2000) HEUI engines with brass injector sleeves. Supposedly the ELC coolant would eat through the brass sleeve and I have had students verify that it did actually happen. Somewhere in my IH info there's a picture of a Swiss-cheese style brass injector sleeve that came from an (improperly filled) ELC system. My personal opinion is to run the factory spec fluids in all applications. There are just too many alloys, coolants, and compatibility problems to know positively that a particular combo is OK. PS You should be "checking and correcting" the PH level on a standard ethylene glycol system, not just blindly putting in an additive without knowing how much PH adjustment is needed. Overcharge is just as dangerous as undercharge. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 How about a 2003 7.3L with a bad oil cooler that was filled with orange coolant? Think there is a correlation? This topic keeps coming up and it seems like most Ford dealer service departments completely ignore DCA testing. I'll admit to not having a test kit but I do use the additive when replacing or adding major amounts of green coolant to a diesel engine. When adding engine coolant, use a 50/50 mixture of engine coolant and clean, drinkable water. To maintain the integrity of the coolant and the cooling system: Add Motorcraft Premium Engine Coolant VC-4-A (in Oregon VC-5, in Canada CXC-10) or equivalent meeting Ford specification ESE-M97B44-A (green color), or Motorcraft Premium Gold Engine Coolant VC-7-A or equivalent meeting Ford specification WSS-M97B51-A1 (yellow color). Always fill the cooling system with the same type of coolant that was drained from the system. Do not mix coolant types. Do not add orange-colored Motorcraft Specialty Orange Engine Coolant VC-2, or equivalent meeting WSS-M97B44-D. Mixing coolants may degrade the coolant's corrosion protection. Do not add alcohol, methanol, brine, or any engine coolants mixed with alcohol or methanol antifreeze. These can cause engine damage from overheating or freezing. Do not mix with recycled coolant unless it meets the requirements of Ford specifications ESE-M97B44-A or WSS-M97B51-A1. Not all coolant recycling processes meet these Ford specifications; use of such a coolant may ham the engine and cooling system components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Now that we are on the topic of Premium Gold in 7.3L's, some of the later model 01', 02' and 03' 7.3L's came factory equipped with Premium gold in the cooling systems. Did the injector cups change up at some point, or were they the same all the way from 99' to 03'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempstead Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I will just stick to the green. I do try to check the Ph level when we have the test strips avialble, parts always seems to forget to "reorder them" and I don't keep enough in my toolbox anymore. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The 7.3 (and DT) injector sleeves changed from brass to stainless steel around the 2000 model year to accommodate the newer coolants (both in Fords and IH). The reason I say "about" is that I've seen stainless in virgin '99s and brass in 2001s. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/coffee.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 How about a 2003 7.3L with a bad oil cooler that was filled with orange coolant? Think there is a correlation? This topic keeps coming up and it seems like most Ford dealer service departments completely ignore DCA testing. I'll admit to not having a test kit but I do use the additive when replacing or adding major amounts of green coolant to a diesel engine. Yes, there could be a correlation between the wrong coolant and the failure. When I had the shop, I followed mfr's recommendations religiously to avoid liability problems in the event of a failure. Imagine this scenario: You work on a vehicle and install an inappropriate coolant. Several months later, the vehicle loses a head gasket and the cust takes it to another shop. The second shop sees the wrong coolant color and states this could have contributed to the head gasket failure. The cust confronts you about it and threatens to sue. If it goes to court, you don't have a leg to stand on. Not only are you going to buy head gaskets, you're going to buy a motor if it needs it. Not my idea of a good day. PS I've attended several coolant classes and have learned a lot from the nations top instructors such as Kevin McCartney and Randy Dillman. Both of them stress using DISTILLED WATER and not tap water to dilute coolant. When I had the shop I bought drums of pre-mixed, because it was mixed with distilled, and gallons of 100% for strengthening a weak solution. Dillman tested tap water in northern Indiana from dozens of public water supplies and found huge differences in PH level between them, including the same supply on different days or weeks. Because half of what you put in the cooling system is the inconsistent water, its chemical and mineral content, and PH level are very important in determining the final mix you end up with. Here's a link to Dillman's coolant class, it is on the right side of the page about halfway down. http://www.lindertech.com/conf~08.htm PPS What I have learned and follow is several things: use a refractometer to determine coolant strength, and use an electric PH meter on the coolant. Here's mine, a Milwaukee SM802, $140: Is there a 12 step program for tool junkies? Hello, my name is Bruce and I am an addict...... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Both of them stress using DISTILLED WATER and not tap water to dilute coolant. When I had the shop I bought drums of pre-mixed, because it was mixed with distilled, and gallons of 100% for strengthening a weak solution. Dillman tested tap water in northern Indiana from dozens of public water supplies and found huge differences in PH level between them, including the same supply on different days or weeks. Because half of what you put in the cooling system is the inconsistent water, its chemical and mineral content, and PH level are very important in determining the final mix you end up with. Here's a link to Dillman's coolant class, it is on the right side of the page about halfway down. http://www.lindertech.com/conf~08.htm PPS What I have learned and follow is several things: use a refractometer to determine coolant strength, and use an electric PH meter on the coolant. Here's mine, a Milwaukee SM802, $140: Is there a 12 step program for tool junkies? Hello, my name is Bruce and I am an addict...... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif The gold coolant is supposed to be a long-life coolant, but lo-and-behold, once you change the original gold coolant, the coolant change interval drops down to the same as the green stuff. The reason for this is they assume you will be using tap water. If you opt for distilled water, the longer interval would still hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Originally Posted By: Keith Browning How about a 2003 7.3L with a bad oil cooler that was filled with orange coolant? Think there is a correlation? This topic keeps coming up and it seems like most Ford dealer service departments completely ignore DCA testing. I'll admit to not having a test kit but I do use the additive when replacing or adding major amounts of green coolant to a diesel engine. Yes, there could be a correlation between the wrong coolant and the failure. When I had the shop, I followed mfr's recommendations religiously to avoid liability problems in the event of a failure. Imagine this scenario: You work on a vehicle and install an inappropriate coolant. Several months later, the vehicle loses a head gasket and the cust takes it to another shop. The second shop sees the wrong coolant color and states this could have contributed to the head gasket failure. The cust confronts you about it and threatens to sue. If it goes to court, you don't have a leg to stand on. Not only are you going to buy head gaskets, you're going to buy a motor if it needs it. Not my idea of a good day. PS I've attended several coolant classes and have learned a lot from the nations top instructors such as Kevin McCartney and Randy Dillman. Both of them stress using DISTILLED WATER and not tap water to dilute coolant. When I had the shop I bought drums of pre-mixed, because it was mixed with distilled, and gallons of 100% for strengthening a weak solution. Dillman tested tap water in northern Indiana from dozens of public water supplies and found huge differences in PH level between them, including the same supply on different days or weeks. Because half of what you put in the cooling system is the inconsistent water, its chemical and mineral content, and PH level are very important in determining the final mix you end up with. Here's a link to Dillman's coolant class, it is on the right side of the page about halfway down. http://www.lindertech.com/conf~08.htm PPS What I have learned and follow is several things: use a refractometer to determine coolant strength, and use an electric PH meter on the coolant. Here's mine, a Milwaukee SM802, $140: Is there a 12 step program for tool junkies? Hello, my name is Bruce and I am an addict...... I had completely forgotten about Lindertech... been a good source of info in the past.... If we look closely at the Ford WSM... and I realize that cooling systems are too fucking simple for us to need to look in the manual.... this would be the manual that states that "Recommended coolant concentration is 50/50 ethylene glycol to distilled water". Now... (we are currently going into melt down with a similar but totally divirced situation) "accepted industry practice" has us using tap water. However... we have never seen an engineer sign off on this practice and, somewhere along the line, we could have a real fur-ball in the making... especially if someone with nothing better to do decides to call 1-800-CALLSAM. Now... do we charge extra for distilled water and try to explain to a dollar conscious customer why we cost more? And isn't the explanation going to sound limp dick to the uninititaed? Do we silently swallow the cost of the distilled water (making sure that we enter a line on the work order to show that we did indeed use the product - about $4.00 per US gallon here in beeyootiful downtown Slave Lake)? If we choose the latter - at least we will be well protected from any class action litigation or other happenings that may arise when someone with an office and a TV commercial decides to stop chasing ambulances. "Accepted industry practice".... there are ever so many things that we have come to view as de riguer... the way we do things.... my current conumdrum is tire plugs. These have been a staple of tire repairs in Alberta for decades... I've used them for about 40 years.... with no problems that I am aware of.... that I am aware of... that I am...... At this point, I think it better that I start a new thread..... to deal with "accepted industry practice".... Back to the chase.... when the WSM states distilled water.... if someone wants to push hard... would coolant colour matter after we use tap water in a coling system? Conumdrum.... I drink tap water (unless there is a water ban on)... why would I treat my motor better than I treat my guts? Decisions... decisions... decisions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 20, 2009 Author Share Posted September 20, 2009 I have considered this for some time but it truly hits home with what we have been learning about cooling systems and heat exchanger failures. We still use city water at my dealership. We have no clue as to the mineral content of it. We don't have any guidelines to say whether it is acceptable or not, even if we did know the test results of Morristown's h2o. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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