mchan68 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Before I begin this post, let me first clarify that I don't consider myself to be the "perfect" tech, or the smartest tech for that matter. But, at this point in my automotive career as a tech, I have made my share of mistakes, and have no problem owning up to them when needed. In a time when the "big three" are in financial dire straits, customer satisfaction is of utmost paramount importance in both sales, and after sales departments. That being said, those of us who DO still care and strive our best to do our part to ensure and maintain customer satisfaction to the best of our abilities, nothing is more frustrating when our co-workers makes US look bad. It's Wednesday evening, a customer rolls in with his 2003 Mustang, alledging that he paid for an oil change that was never done. He produces his copy of the invoice, which clearly indicates the employee number of the servicing tech, the parts charged out on the RO and the amount of labour charged. Apparently, he "marked" the old oil filter himself with a dot between two certain letters on the old filter. So, in rolls the car into a bay to be put into the air as instructed to one of our apprentices. In comes the owner to indicate where he marked it, prior to bringing it in. The question I have in my mind is, WHY in the hell is this tech still employed at our dealership? Why did the owner of this vehicle "mark" the filter? He must already distrust our establishment in the first place, for him to go to the trouble of marking the filter. Well, the shop foreman did the oil change in the end, after which both him and the advisor apologized PROFUSELY for the fuck up. Whether or not, he will ever return again for service, who knows. Today, a customer who just pruchased a 2009 F-250 6.4L from our store about a couple months ago (a sale that I "helped" talk him into, since he was considering a Cummins or Duramax as well) comes in to have four new snow tires installed on new Ford rims (that he pre-ordered through our parts department himself). The RO is written up. The job goes to another tech in the shop. I get paged to service to talk to this guy (before the truck is brought in by the other tech). He asks me what the funny sound is while the engine is running. I quickly go to listen to this noise myself, and determine what appears to be a fuel knock from bank #2. He explains that he had just had the oil changed at another dealer. I ask him what oil was used. He shows me the bill, and low and behold the other dealer put in 15W40. I promptly informed him that these engines should be running 10W30 all year long. No probs there. He says, "just do it, I don't mind paying for it". So now, a line is added. This tech takes his sweet time to do the tires (2 hours and he doesn't even have all four done yet!), never mind the oil change. Well, finally with all four tires mounted on rims and installed, the advisor is now in the shop helping him do the oil change, pouring in all 15 litres of oil for him. When the truck is finally rolled out, the customer comes back in asking to speak to the guy that installed his tires, to ask him how much air he put into the tires. Stupidly, the tech only put in 35psi! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif So now, in rolls the truck right in front of the bay door (impeding in and out traffic for the shop) to fill the tires to proper spec. Back out to the truck goes to the front of the shop for the customer to be on his merry way FINALLY. As I go to park another "waiter" out front. This time the customer approaches ME, asking if someone can just clean the grease prints off his tan carpet floor mats and scuff plates! I thought WTF?! Doesn't this guy use floor mats?! On one of my Saturday shifts to work, we close at 4pm. By 4:30pm, I'm already changed and about to make my way out the door. Suddenly, the SA comes to me to ask me to "help" the other tech to change the brake shoes on a Windstar. Apparently, he had already been on it for three hours just changing a set of front pads and turning the rotors. Changing shoes on a Windstar apparently was a bit of a challenge to him (the same tech that did the oil change on the Mustang in the second paragraph of this post). This morning, I'm already trying to deal with my own shit, while trying to help out the poor bastard beside me that got stiffed with replacing a misdiagnosed HCU on an '08 Escape Hybrid by another tech in the shop that he's been stuck on for three days trying to bleed the system. I get paged by the SM to "look at" and '01 Town Car. I was told to install the fan clutch that was already ordered in by someone else. As I bring the vehicle in, is when it occurs to me that Panther cars (Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car) stopped using fan clutches, beginning in the '98 model years when they went to the variable speed electric fans to look after the cooling needs. Sure enough, it turns out, the noise turned out to be the air suspension compressor about ready to dynamite. Sorry for the long winded post. I would like to point out that I am generally not a tech who concerns himself with what other techs are doing, but sometimes it gets frustrating when you try to do your best, while others don't appear to give a rat's ass. And yet, going out of your way to please a customer when it is convenient seems to be perceived by some, as "ass kissing". Rant is over. How is life with everyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 My favorite in recent memory was an air-ride module diaged by another tech, that I had the honor of putting in, on a towncar. So I slam the module in, and guess what? The air ride still doesn't work! Fuse for the air ride is blown. I grow quickly tired of having to re-diag shit at work, (USUALLY FOR FREE)and thats seemingly everything that happened at the dealership I used to work at. One particular tech was having some vibration issues with a vehicle, and we discovered that it was 6 litres overfilled with oil. And he did it again. Shlep and I figure he wasnt draining it before he was re-filling it. Senility's a bitch. Ah well. There are so many stories from that shop.... "Ahh...I see the fuck-up fairy has visited us once again!" seemed to be a fairly common refrain from my corner of the shop. An how come you aint on MSN, Mike?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 sounds like my shop,there are techs at my shop who try hard and do good work,they want to get the repeat business,but all it takes is the one that does not care for whatever reason, in the end it makes our job alot harder then it has be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Mike, I really don't believe that anyone actually brings a job in with the idea that they are going to screw it up... All of it, it is simply "shit happens" on parade. Lack of conciousness, lack of care, lack of judgement, lack of pride.... It goes on and on.... Place an object close to the edge of a bench or desk - place it 'TOO' close to the edge and wait.... Watch peoples reactions when they accidentally brush it off... Some wont even look behind them to see what the crash was as the object hit the floor.... Others will look and decide that while they are a factor in the mishap, it isn't up to them to correct their mistake.... Few will actaully stop and pick the object up and replace it on the bench.... That's people.... When faced with installing something as simple as mudflaps - one will agonize over placement and level and even-ness... another will make you feel that you should be happy they kind of made it on to the truck - some with more than two sheet metal screws.... Look around your shop.... does anyone check the dipstick level after an oil change? (Hint... the 6.4 takes 15 US quarts with the filter). We take so much for granted... including whether we counted oil properly. One Master tech swore up and down the the 5.4 2V and the 5.4 3V take the same amount of oil... Seat covers and floor mats... Well, it isn't often we need floor mats - this IS the oil patch and the floor of the truck is the floor of the truck... But seat covers.... How many times in a day do you think I say "where's your seatcover?"? And I get a look in return - one that makes me wonder if I've ever said that before.... Grease smudges? Why would I care? It ain't my car..... It's not just our industry... you can find crappy service and crappy attendants where-ever you go... in our business, it's just a bit more visual and it happens to a customers very expensive automobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Your stories are the reason it gripes me when haughty dealer techs look down their noses at the indies. We are all fishing from the same gene pool for techs. I am sure every dealer, ours included, could add volumes to your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 It's not just our industry... you can find crappy service and crappy attendants where-ever you go... in our business, it's just a bit more visual and it happens to a customers very expensive automobile. +1 Anyone here ever get a house built? Mike, you sound pissed. Did you get stuck doing 6.0L headgaskets in chassis? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Nobody is perfect, but there is a difference beetween making a mistake and just not giving a !@#$. That is what your story sounds like. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Your stories are the reason it gripes me when haughty dealer techs look down their noses at the indies. We are all fishing from the same gene pool for techs. I am sure every dealer, ours included, could add volumes to your post. What exactly are you getting at? What exactly do you mean by "haughty dealer techs look down their noses at the indies"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 haugh-ty [haw-tee] -adjective, -tier, -tiest. 1. disdainfully proud; snobbish; scornfully arrogant; supercilious: haughty aristocrats; a haughty salesclerk. 2. Archaic. lofty or noble; exalted. Come on, we all have come across them and some of us may actually work with one... the world is abound with pricks who see the world from the top of their noses. In other words, don't be offended by the term. There are haughty techs in the indie world as well and in every walk of life. Just look on the Diesel Stop and observe the cross representation of haughty jerks that show disdain for stealerships and dealer technicians. Haughty, it's a human condition. Those that let that condition rise to the top keep the rest of us grounded. I did not take the statement as a generalization... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 ......observe the cross representation of haughty jerks that show disdain for stealerships and dealer technicians. Haughty, it's a human condition. Those that let that condition rise to the top keep the rest of us grounded. I did not take the statement as a generalization... Those very jerks are exactly the kind that I have ZERO sympathy or patience for. I too have already browsed those forums myself, and from time to time, I get tired of reading posts that begin with, "help, I run a 5" straight pipe, EGR delete, Banks six gun, blah blah blah blah...... and my engine locked up, does anyone know if this is covered under warranty, because I CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR AN ENGINE (but I can afford thousands of dollars in mods /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif)" Yes, in just about every shop there are those "brake rapists" and flush queens (mine certainly has more than its fair share of them). Get a vehicle in with an air bag light on, or ABS light on, and they go running away scared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Since I am such a slow typist, I tend to spare words and my posts may be unclear. Read my posts like an ASE test question; if you add too much you will most likely get it wrong. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif We dealer techs like to air dirty laundry other than our own, so I thought mchans post out of the ordinary. I grew up in a family owned service station atmosphere and moved to the dealer. I see techs as an idividual based on skill, not on place of employment. I feel the attitude of raising yourself up by lowering the other guy, only hurts all techs in the customers eyes. Since I work at the dealer I felt entitled to a little "dig" at those that feel superior because of employment alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 I think it important here for us to concentrate on the issue Mike has presented in his first post.... Techs.... Folks that make their living doing this stuff.... And to, for the time being, forget about those DIY champions.... When it comes to techs.... there are three kinds.... Those that are very, very good at what they do - those that made a catastrophic career choice - and the rest of us living in that big gap in the middle.... I really don't care what sign you have floating above your driveway... because the problems are the same for all of us.... We are all distrusted and maligned.... And we seem to be bound and determined to fight a battle that isn't being waged. So.... before we open Pandoras box.... let me begin with "50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class". OMG.... the deck is stacked.... Let me also state that I am likely one of the haughtiest bastuhds out there.... and it has squat to do with where I am and everything to do with who I am. As a dealer tech, I have access to (amongst other luxuries) a complete set of current workshop manuals... The subscription to these manuals is assured by being a dealer. These books aren't free - they are a part of doing business... Too many independents overlook these books - even considering them an "unnecessary cost" (wait for it.... it is the store at fault for not providing this stuff - not the tech - yet). Mitchell and AllData offer "economical" alternatives to expensive factory manuals... I am unfamiliar with their content. But I do know that factory manuals are chock full of sections describing the principles of operation of all of the systems on a car.... It is these sections, right there in the WSM that are so important <DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION>.... If you don't know what the friggin thing does - how it does it - or even what it is designed to do.,.. how are you going to fix it? Not long ago, we wasted hours trying to figure out why a memory seat in an F150 didn't perform a function IT WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO PERFORM!!!!! I asked the tech if he had read the manual.... no... "but he was going to...". WTF is that? "Let me fuck around for a few hours and then I'll check to see if it does <that>". It isn't about looking down ones nose indiscriminately... You have to look down your nose with a purpose.... The guy that tries to save a few bucks (this is a guy that makes us all look like buffoons) by not buying proper documentation.... Shit... we can get some pretty good guesses of of iATN... We don't have to know squat... somebody else does that for us. As if to punctuate my point, the InFord message board (the Canadian side of things) has been top heavy with idiot posts this week.... Questions that are answered painlessly in the WSM and the PC/ED - ESPECIALLY if you have the where-with-all to read the introductions to the PPTs and the description and operation sections. I get paid quite handsomely.... Why? Because I read what other people wont.... Nothing more - nothing less.... If indies would stop saving money on manuals at their customers expense... if dealer techs would simply use that which they are given (caution - over-simplification on many points happening), I could stop being "haughty".... I have proven myself to be an asshole on nearly every forum I have visited... Why? Because I don't whimper about my substandard pay.... I don't treat my managers as "the enemy" - and I have come to grips with the idea that this is my "career". It behooves me to be better than the next guy (I want to be in the top half of the class, thank you)... to be "haughtier" than the next guy. How do I do that? I friggin' earn it.... I bust my chops to learn stuff that other guys think comes through osmosis.... At the risk of jinxing myself.... yeah... I ain't great but I still think I'm pretty fuckin' good.... and it takes more work than some guys are willing to invest.... in their fucking CAREERS!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrunoWilimek Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 The problem of substandard work will not go away as long as the supply of qualified, educated techs who are willing to do their jobs to the best of their abilities keeps dwindling. Let's face it, there is much less incentive for young people to get into this trade than when guys my age started in it. Back then, my wage was 1/2 the door rate, which was $18/hour. Now my wage is close to 1/3. Most of the apprentices can only afford to go to school one day a week for many weeks instead of eight weeks straight like I did(3 times for 3 years). How much do they actually retain? We had one of our techs(a good one) move up? to the service manager's position in June, and have only been able to replace him just a week ago. There are just not that many available good techs out there. We had a lot of applications, but most of them were either prima-donnas(I want $35 per hour{we get less than $30} or I'm not going to send a resume), didn't have their own tools or were near retirement age or had no experience working on cars/trucks(small engine techs). I am not perfect by any means, but at least I try to learn from my mistakes/oversights. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/2cents.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 nice post jim. i think we kind of think alike. i am glad that when i went through my apprenticeship years, i had a couple of hard ass, hard working, really smart techs to guide me. i also had a couple of slack ass hacks, and few in between as well. no one ever held my hand, or spoon fed me, but the quality help was there whenever i needed it, and i believe i am a better tech because of it. now, as i am the shop foreman, i have tried to give my young apprenti the same "tools" that i was given. one difference between them and me, NONE OF THEM WANT TO LEARN SHIT! they expect to be spoon fed, and are too lazy to try to figure things out for themselves. i have 2 apprentices here that don't even know how to call oasis even though i have shown them countless times(or that is their excuss anyway). now, don't get me wrong, i will be the first guy to jump in if someone needs a hand, but i have some rules. 1-have you read the wsm, called oasis etc 2-are you prepared to do the job(tools out, books out, etc) 3-have you at least attempted to do it yourself(within your capable limits) if you answered no to any of the above, don't come and see me until you can say yes i have. and so it is, i look like the asshole, the shop nazzi when i am anything but. i as well like to keep up to date. i am a member of at least 6 technical based forums, i read the tsb's and ssm's as they are released, i frequent inford, i go to the pro tech meetings, etc, etc. and i thrive because of it. the three catagories you mentioned, i have one of each here. one guy that potentially could be great, but he is lazy. one that will probably be a pretty good tech but never a cut above. and one that should consider a career change. but, as jim and most of the other guys know, attracting quality young people into the trade is tough. i'm not sure why, but kids are completely misguided in school these days. i did a career fair last year, and kids are still being told that skilled tradesmen are only making $35-50000/year with the exception of welding and plumbing. maybe if the truth was out there, and a few more shop owners would get with the times, we might not be in such bad shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustedKnucklez Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 i have 2 apprentices here that don't even know how to call oasis call OASIS?? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif Do you mean, hotline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 haha, no i mean oasis. that is just what we say, call oasis, check oasis, same thing. and as far as hotline goes, if you can't run the vehicle in oasis, how the hell can you call hotline. my situation is frustrating, even though i am the "shop foreman", i am still expected to produce hours. it has taken some time, and trial and error to come up with what we both(the dealer and myself) feel is a fair pay structure and time split, but i honestly don't get to spend as much quality time with my guys(and gal) as i would like. anyway, to kind of get back on topic, and stay off topic at the same time, wtf is with young people today. that is what makes me shake my head. i am not old(29)but it is pretty unbelievable how much things have changed in the last 10-12 years since i got into this god awful trade. if i acted back then anything close to the way some of my guys act now, i would have been out on my ass. when i wanted a raise, i had to earn it, not expect it because joe tech down the street makes $2/hour more than me. i didn't have to listen to the guys in the shop complain because a senior guy was making more money than fresh out of school j-man. it took me years to finally get a pay structure set up here that rewards hard work and effort, not just showing up at 8 every morning. but what really makes me shake my head about that is, nobody takes advantage of it but me. the incentives are there, and almost everyone in my shop can attain them, but instead of actually working towards them, they complain. i am not making enough money, I WANT A RAISE OR I AM GOING TO QUIT, BLAH BLAH. rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 but what really makes me shake my head about that is, nobody takes advantage of it but me. the incentives are there, and almost everyone in my shop can attain them, but instead of actually working towards them, they complain. i am not making enough money, I WANT A RAISE OR I AM GOING TO QUIT, BLAH BLAH. rant over I get paid the same hourly flat rate, with my diesel/senior/master and hybrid status as the other techs in my store, including the two aforementioned "techs" in my first post. This is because we are "onionized" as Jim likes to put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlee Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Originally Posted By: mlee but what really makes me shake my head about that is, nobody takes advantage of it but me. the incentives are there, and almost everyone in my shop can attain them, but instead of actually working towards them, they complain. i am not making enough money, I WANT A RAISE OR I AM GOING TO QUIT, BLAH BLAH. rant over I get paid the same hourly flat rate, with my diesel/senior/master and hybrid status as the other techs in my store, including the two aforementioned "techs" in my first post. This is because we are "onionized" as Jim likes to put it. that is too bad. i know alberta is a bit different than the rest of the country as far as the so called work force goes, and i have never lived anywhere else so all i have to go on is hear say about the east, but you ALWAYS need to look out for #1. i have been at the same store since i started in the wash bay in 1996. a few times i have thought about leaving, but i always communicated my problems and feelings with my dp first, and we always came to some sort of a conclusion that seemed to benifit the both of us(and it isn't always about pay). we used to be some what unionized as well. we had a base j-man rate, and every tech got $0.50 per completed specialty. it sounded good, but my theory is anyone can complete the fmt's and show up for a classroom course a few time a year, but unless you are putting that knowledge to use what good is it. so i went to the dp and expressed my thoughts. i compared our shop to a hockey team. every team has a few superstars, leaders, and role models. every team also has a few average run of mill guys, and every team has the 4th liners that have a certain role so to speak. how do you think the crosby's and the iginla's would react if the nhl decied they were just going to treat everyone the same? no rewards for hard work and leadership skills. no reward for being a bit better than the guy beside you, although maybe no fault of his own. so i suggested an nhl style of pay, rewards for hard work and skill(with quarterly reviews), and the role guys would never be punished just because they aren't a superstar. we have 2 easy to understand systems, the tech chooses which one he thinks suits him best, and the rest is up to him(or her). the problem is shitty techs think they are good, good techs think they are great, and great techs know they are great, their bosses know they are great, and in most cases are treated like gold(or at least should be). and when they aren't, too many of them end up leaving the trade because they assume it will be the same no matter where they go. sometimes grass is greaner on the other side, sometimes it isn't, but it is always still just grass. it is what you make of it. i just try to make sure all the tools are there for everyone to prosper as long as they are willing. but alas, some days it still is not good enough. maybe nothing ever will be? maybe alberta needs to slow the f**k down for reality to set in(which just might happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Don't feel bad. At a training session in Denver some years ago I met a smart tech in class that was ready for a beer afterwards. Sitting around talking shop he tells how he left his previous dealer. Seems the word leaked out the lube/maintenance tech earned the most coin that year. The fact was the lubie made the least per hour, but simply churned so many hours. The work was always scheduled day in/day out, parts were always on hand, customer had ok'd the work since the prices were menued and comebacks rare due to the skill level. It didn't help that if another flush machine was needed it was bought by the shop, so he had little out of pocket costs on his own. It was too much on this techs mind, so he left. It wasn't a union shop, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Don't feel bad. At a training session in Denver some years ago I met a smart tech in class that was ready for a beer afterwards. Sitting around talking shop he tells how he left his previous dealer. Seems the word leaked out the lube/maintenance tech earned the most coin that year. The fact was the lubie made the least per hour, but simply churned so many hours. The work was always scheduled day in/day out, parts were always on hand, customer had ok'd the work since the prices were menued and comebacks rare due to the skill level. It didn't help that if another flush machine was needed it was bought by the shop, so he had little out of pocket costs on his own. It was too much on this techs mind, so he left. It wasn't a union shop, either. Next to last Ford Dealer I worked at in SC had the same deal going on...90% of the shop struggled to break 25hrs a week. The last week I worked the "Lube Tech" turned 114hrs...he was hourly plus comission. He did ALL the 30k's & scheduled brake jobs. He had 3 racks while the rest of us had one...actually I was only at this shop for 5 weeks. Figured-out there was no money to be made there for me...no parts in stock, SM was a NAZI about ZERO conversation between techs. If he saw you out of your bay he would rush over and ask why you were "over here bothering tech X". You couldn't even ask another tech a question...same deal if more than 1 guys was at the parts counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kridd12 Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Being a SM myself and having to work along side grampy jim as a tech over the last 5 years I have found that conversation and fun in the shop helps things go round. I have heard so many stories in the past from friends at other dealers and shops that basically become bay hermits when they hit the shop floor. If you can't enjoy being at work and have some fun I think management needs to check themselves. I've only been at this for 9 months now and am about 1/3 the age of grampy jim, but know that if some one offers advice or knowledge you should take it into consideration(even though it maybe sinility kicking in) all advise is welcome. Stories that can make you shake your head is when you forget the basics(GRAMPY, and myself included)Jim's first job when he started at the dealer was a windstar with no rear lights. spent 3-4 hours on to find a burnt fuse. I know I have done the same many times over the years, you gotta love when the old flate rate mentality kicks in and money hits the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Ahhhh, the Windstar - fresh from indy shops that refused to part with good coin for something as mundane as decent WSMs, I shot myself square in the foot (as I am wont to do on far too many occasions). This is, without a doubt, the event that has driven me deeper and deeper into the workshop manual. Anyone familiar with the lighting system on a Windstar can agree that this will humble the unwary. Today, I find myself consulting the WSM for things as technically challenging as demounting a tire.... I find myself asking "have you checked OASIS?" even if the concern is obvious.... Bruno, the supply of good techs is almost non-existant... In Alberta, the supply of lousy techs is scarce - yes, even fuck ups are worth money. If you are still breathing and you show up in the morning, we can use you... We can join Mr. Peabody and Sherman in the WABAC machine... the year is 1975... A dashing young redhead, married little more than a year, earned his journeymans.... That leap in pay brought my hourly wage to almost $4.00. I could put 5 bucks worth of gas in my car and make it all the way from one payday to the next... Cars were simpler back then.... (well, pre-1973 cars were). One fuse panel.... maybe 12 fuses. For many years the attitude was that if your son wasn't smart enough to be an electrician (110/240 volt kind of electricain) or smart enough to be a plumber, he could always be a mechanic. For the most part, that worked.... If the car didn't run right.... points and condenser... Still no good? Spark plugs.... Still no good? Cap, rotor and wires.... And if that didn't do it, we'd sell a "major" tune up (which included all of the above and a carb overhaul). Except for the carb overhaul, this is all no brainer shit... Using nothing more than dumb-assed luck, you could fix nearly any running problem without running your customer into bankruptcy. Today... two fuse panels are expected.... 3 and 4 fuse panels are "ho-hum". Since the dawn of creation, the electrical system has proven to be the hardest vehicle system to grasp.... But now vehicles have miles and miles and miles of wiring, nearly pounds of fuses and relays.... and society in general still views us in the same terms that they viewed us in 1975. If you can't do anything else... you can always unbolt parts and bolt new ones on.... For society in general, deciding which parts to replace and which ones to leave seems to be another subject - apparently, somewhere between the cute girl on the service desk and the smelly brute on the shop floor, the diagnosis fairy waves her wand and all a mechanic has to know is "lefty loosey.....". Any issues involving the automotive trades are far too complex to deal with one topic at a time... everything is woven together in a vast tapestry. A seeming simple change in one place can have resounding effects in unexpected areas. Welcome aboard, Kenny.... Looks like the Canajuns are taking over /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grampy-jim.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Just last week, I was "told" to replace the ABS module/HCU assembly on an '05 F-150 by an indy shop, pre-quoted by our SM for an ABS light on issue. He only brought it to us because it required reprogramming with the IDS. Sure enough, after replacement and reprogramming, the ABS light STILL remained. So, running a very quick self-test revealed the C1300 that was probably the cause of the originating issue. It took me all of two minutes to find the 40amp fuse MIA from the CJB. It helps when the module has power to it. But, I guess that would've been too complex a task for the indy shop to carry out. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/icon_crazy.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Working off someone elses diagnosis should make you grit your teeth.... But working off another shops diagnosis? One can only wonder what the powers that be in your store were thinking. "Missing fuse syndrome" is a lot more common than some expect and it's something that has caught a lot of people off guard... it can even catch people multiple times over their careers... Mistakes? We all make them. But we should always endeavour to make our own mistakes rather than let a stranger make them for us. As a fire department instructor, we practiced a method called "fail forward"... The human condition has us programmed to make mistakes.... Building on and learning from those mistakes will make us stronger and wiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 "Missing fuse syndrome" is a lot more common than some expect and it's something that has caught a lot of people off guard... it can even catch people multiple times over their careers... This reminds me of a gentleman I know, named Bindar Dundat. My question is, WHERE THE HELL DO THESE FUSES GO? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldoc Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 AAHHHH the infamous missing fuse. It has gotten me twice in my 7 years as a tech and got the guy next to me today. I hate that darn illusive fuse that seems to sneak away with out anyone noticing(including the guy that took it and used it to power his I-pod) Wait maybe fuses are like socks when you wash them and the machine eats one every once in a while, Maybe there is a little fuse monger that eats a fuse once in a while? ROFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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