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Almost started to like the 6.0

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zx5chris

zx5chris

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having a (blank) of a time trying to figure out a 'no start'. have sync and ficmsync, icp good, relative compression even and rpm at 176, fuel pressure at 55 psi., compression test 270 - 325

fuel is able to ignite (in a spray bottle and add flame /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif )

 

talked to the engineers without any help, anyone have this situtation. all tests pass and still no start argh!

 

any help/comments would be appreciated

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Bruce Amacker

Bruce Amacker

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having a (blank) of a time trying to figure out a 'no start'. have sync and ficmsync, icp good, relative compression even and rpm at 176, fuel pressure at 55 psi., compression test 270 - 325

 

This is in PSI, right? It's too low across all 8. What's your altitude? A good motor is 400+, a weak cyl is 350, anything below 300 won't run. (sea level) What's your turbo inlet look like? Evidence of dirt or erosion? How many miles/KM's? Factory air filter with a clean inlet duct? The compression numbers make me think the engine's dusted.

fuel is able to ignite (in a spray bottle and add flame /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/flamethrower.gif )

 

talked to the engineers without any help, anyone have this situation. all tests pass and still no start argh!

 

any help/comments would be appreciated

No codes? You ran the KOEO and Buzz Test, right? Smoke from the tailpipe when cranking? ICPV about 1.5V cranking? (don't rely on ICP, as it is an inferred PID) I'd double check glow plug amperage just to be sure (roughly 180 KOEO, tapering to 120 after 15 seconds) If it's above 125 it's probably not your problem, and 99% of the time a 6.0 will set GP codes anyway if there's a failure. If all else pans out, fill the secondary FF with Stanadyne or PM17A fuel additive and see if it runs. Trucks like this commonly end up being bad injectors that won't atomize fuel properly, hence no combustion. (if it's not dusted /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif )

 

Let us know what you find.

 

Good Luck!

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

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DamageINC

DamageINC

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Yeah those compression numbers are waaay low for us, we usually see 400psi dead-nuts for every cylinder. And obviously if they're all equally messed up, then the relative compression test will show up fine.

 

(Keep in mind that anything at or over 2% loss on a relative compression test with these diesels is a big red-flag.)

 

Dave

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Alex Bruene

Alex Bruene

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Yeah those compression numbers are waaay low for us, we usually see 400psi dead-nuts for every cylinder. And obviously if they're all equally messed up, then the relative compression test will show up fine.

 

(Keep in mind that anything at or over 2% loss on a relative compression test with these diesels is a big red-flag.)

 

Dave

The compression looks low to me too. And, speaking of relative compression... performing a relative compression test with a glow-plug removed only shows a 15% difference...

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zx5chris

zx5chris

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similar altitude to denver, little white smoke when injector cackle, injector self test passes (little buzz on each one). think the injector inspection might be in order. it has almost double the hours incomparison to the odometer. cetane boost trick might be in the near future.

 

lets hope it's dusty and we will need the service records to clean it up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

thanks for the input

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Bruce Amacker

Bruce Amacker

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Originally Posted By: AlexBruene
performing a relative compression test with a glow-plug removed only shows a 15% difference...

You have done this? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/scratchhead.gif

Some people have waaaay too much free time on their hands......

 

 

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

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Jim Warman

Jim Warman

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The year would be 1974.... The car would be a near new Cougar... The motor was a very warm 351M/400... I know this because I took out all 8 spark plugs - this was long before anyone thought of "pit gloves"... hell, it was before teflon and kevlar... and it hurt - flat rate hasn't changed...

 

I aimed for 5 "woofs" on my compression test... and got over a dozen... this motor was "trying" to run. If you don't understand Bernoullis principal and the venturi effect - stop here... I'm, not sure how many of you know what a carburettor is - let alone know that I prefer the British spelling and only the Japs ever used an idle fuel shut off....

 

I have never had the opportunity to test Alex's suggestion... but I can certainly see it's validity.... Be very careful using the word "never". Ever done a running compression test?

 

Let us remember that a relative compression test is a relative compression test.... If all of the cylinders are in the toilet - they will all look good... Chris's 176 rpm cranking is getting towards "fast"... Fast cranking speed and a no start with everything else good????? This IS a compression ignition motor.... Where I live, we are getting P40 diesel as we speak.

 

Chris... it would have been a bit nice if you could have just told us where you are... Having just your P&A code could mean a lot of things.... none of them are convenient and it can just make life more difficult...

 

DTS has a few mambers that need anonymity... a very few members. (This is what I was thinking, Keith). These guys contribute when they can and, occasionally, offer us an "inside scoop". These guys are assets we need to protect.

 

For the rest of us.... knowing where you live... knowing your climate.... knowing your demographic... knowing all manner of little subtleties can help us help each other better... There is no need to make that part difficult.... After all, this isn't the "monkeyhouse"... is it?

 

If I felt the need to remain anonymous, it could mean that I didn't have any conviction to my statements... it could mean I have false bravado and would never say what I said if you were directly in front of me....

 

I could go on and on about "anonymity" and how I feel about it... Sorry, Keith...

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zx5chris

zx5chris

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the beast in question is a 06 f-450 with 70,500 km showing, 2700 hours (just a bit of idle time). the vehicle is registered to Strathmore Alberta company, owned out of BC, and works out of Fort McMurray. i have dusted engine turning over +200 rpm. so relative compression is just one of the variables that we look at (could have a weak starter)

 

thanks for all the extra brain power to help me think of other ideas/avenues that i should be investigating

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