paulh Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 2005 6.0ltr/tourque shift PSD build date 09/04 while towing (8klbs) under a slight grade in 5th gear @ 1600 to 1900 rmp the turbo is quiting momentarily, you can see it drop about 5 psi on the boost guage and you can also hear the boost dump back into the air cleaner box. this also occurs in high altitude (6500 feet) in 3rd or fourth gear @ 3k rpm. No recalls on for this vehicle and the vgt actuator, egr, ebp sennsor have been replaced, the latest updates have been installed. this problem has been there since the truck was new, after the work mentioned was performed it has been happening less often but the problem is still there. No codes are present and the hotline doesn't have any solutions. has anyone had this problem and what was done to repair it. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Paul, 1st post... welcome to the DTS! I personally have no advice for you but there is a reason for my reply. It looks like you went after the items most of us would have focused on and or replaced. I JUST had a customer in with a 2005 F350, 6.0L as well doing the same thing but only when towing 9K travel trailer on hills at a steady throttle. I found nothing wrong with the truck but we know something is obviously going on. I did replace the EBP sensor with the latest level part and the customer decided to give it a try. I also read a similar post on the Diesel Stop boards just like this. I think this is a 2005 problem that is developing... I do think that we need to involve the HotLine and or submit concern reports as this may be something engineering needs to look at and quick! I have a theory that the calibration may be attempting to limit an over boost situation and the parameters could be a little to tight. With all the apparent head gasket issues and coolant puking it might make sense. That's just a theory of course. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/notworthy.gif Good post. Anybody else see this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixturbosix Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 I,m still in the process of learning ford diesels but I have been able to work on them without being certified as of yet.(getting closer).Because we are a new dealer and had an eight month waiver that allowed me to work on them.I so far have been able to fix all the ones they have taken in.But I have done a great deal of studying for the last eight months (Lots of valuble info from this site)I used to go to flatrate tech site alot until the tech to tech turned into a tech against ford forum.No tech fixs are posted on there anymore just complaints against ford and their procedures.We can fuse all we want but all of us ford techs in the world can,t make a multi billion dollar co. like ford do anything until all the high payed ceo,s and suits stop being greedy and all for them selves.This is present in most all major corporations(greed).But what I can do scince I have choose to be a ford tech is show my community that I am the best and the respect you can recieve from being the best is as powerful as money to me and once you earn that respect the money will follow.A service manager from a nearby dealer told me I was crazy for studying at home and he wound think it was crazy if one of his techs studied at home.My reply to him was "I'll remember that when your guys are calling me for answers one of these days."Enough small talk and by the way ford sent my dealer a letter last week saying the new diesel certified mechanic we hired has to do all the work now scince our 8 Months is up or we risk warranty audit.But anyway I had an 05 that was droping boost and it was not all the sudden.It was gradully pushing the blue tank seal out from around the intercooler slowly and you couldn't see it for those rubber radiator baffles.I found it by holding brake pressure and boosting truck while someone listened for air outside the truck.I hope to keep learning from this site in the future.Thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 22, 2005 Share Posted September 22, 2005 Quote: ...But anyway I had an 05 that was dropping boost and it was not all the sudden.It was gradually pushing the blue tank seal out from around the intercooler slowly and you couldn't see it for those rubber radiator baffles.I found it by holding brake pressure and boosting truck while someone listened for air outside the truck.I hope to keep learning from this site in the future.Thanx Thank You! Something to check for although I did look. My customer's truck would actually present the turbo/intake flutter sound when this happens to him so I am fairly convinced that something is causing the turbo to return to it's default position.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcassidy111 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Any new information on this condition. 2 times on my own truck I have experienced the condition that paulh and Ford DR have described. Light accel, 1800-2000 rpm, 40-50mph, 9K# trailer at 7 to 9K feet altitude, only 10psi of boost, exhaust temp 1200+ degrees F. I thought that I caused the problem by trying to drive the truck like it had a gas engine. The second time (8000feet, 7% grade, hot engine, 80degrees ambient temp, light accel) that it happened I pulled over, did not shut the truck off, then restarted the climb to the summit with no problems. No codes and I have not reflashed the pcm since new (6/05). The first thing that I will do is have the latest flashes done for my T/H issues then recheck but has anyone else tried to diagnose this problem or has a reflash been issued specifically for this complaint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Sticking turbos. New turbo has fixed all of mine. Acually recorded the EGR opening to dump boost and slow down the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Like Hotline says: "Pinpoint test KA"........ Dont mean to be a smart #$$ but we need to make sure we actually do all the tests available(not saying you guys havent, but its important).. These concerns sound like a sticking turbo to me.. If you can watch EBP, that will also give you an indicator along with MAP and VGTDC.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Don't mean to be a smart #$$ but we need to make sure we actually do all the tests available(not saying you guys haven't, but its important)..Thats not being a smart ass - good advice is worth repeating. HOWEVER, not all trucks that come in with a turbo problem come in with a STUCK turbo and they test good in the service bay. I have had several that required extensive road testing and one I sent off on vacation with his 5th wheeler and our VCM. I think it's odd that we have yet to discuss... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif The Magnet test! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I rarely see a failed turbo that will act failed in the bay (or even when I'm driving it most of the time). It's been a long, long time since I've seen mention of the magnet test. I get a little anal, sometimes (well, OK, I'm anal most of the time) and find myself repeating the test over and over all the while the plunger is freeing up and acting better.... Be interesting to know exactly what the oil pressure acting on the plunger is... I'm thinking it is likely significantly less than base pressure???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Be interesting to know exactly what the oil pressure acting on the plunger is... I'm thinking it is likely significantly less than base pressure???? I'll bet that if they designed the VGT actuator to operate using HPOP pressure, then no turbo COULD stick!!! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rofl.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Quote: Originally posted by HGM:Don't mean to be a smart #$$ but we need to make sure we actually do all the tests available(not saying you guys haven't, but its important).. Thats not being a smart ass - good advice is worth repeating. HOWEVER, not all trucks that come in with a turbo problem come in with a STUCK turbo and they test good in the service bay. I have had several that required extensive road testing and one I sent off on vacation with his 5th wheeler and our VCM. I think it's odd that we have yet to discuss... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif The Magnet test! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif Good point(I like the HPOPsi idea too).. But on a serious note.. The KA test may need to be done multiple times. If you feel it may be a turbo sticking, it would be a good idea to get it HOT. The best way to do this is to run you VGT to 85%, close the EGR and idle it up to about 1500RPM. After 10min in this condition, the turbo should get scalding hot(more so than usual). If you run the KA test after its super hot, you are closer to duplicating the operating failure of a loaded truck.. Hotline should be recomending that from time to time, if I'm not mistaken.. As for the "magnet test"..... it was a joke to begin with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif .. Thinking that all tech magnets are the same strength, then assuming that if the magnet couldnt pull it, it must be stuck.. I didnt care for that when I was told to do it a couple years ago.. But /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif , gota do what you gata do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcassidy111 Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 not all trucks that come in with a turbo problem come in with a STUCK turbo and they test good in the service bay. I have had several that required extensive road testing and one I sent off on vacation with his 5th wheeler and our VCM My truck has only had this problem 2 times in 17K miles of towing, not likely it will show up on the shop floor. Both times towing over the Sierra Nevada, once each way. Next trip I will have the scanner hooked up and try to duplicate the condition on the same hills. Have you ever looked at MODE 6 data when diagnosing this type of problem and does anyone have the PID parameter information (min and max values) for the codes for under and overboost? How long does the condition have to last to set either a hard or pending code? I cannot find information as to whether these are 1 trip or 2 trip set codes. Never tried to access MODE 6 data on this vehicle, may not be able to do it with the scanners that I own but I do have access to Ford scanners (WDS and IDS)-do either of these scanners support MODE 6 data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Pete, while I use Mode 6 for gas engines occasionally, I am unsure if it will be much help with a diesel. IDS and WDS both support Mode 6.... Mode 6 is extremely helpful when an emissions monitor wont complete but diesels always seem to clear a P1000 pretty quick (no EVAP cycle to run I think is the biggie and no catalyst monitor). There are so many times that these engines get to be very hard to even consider Fords SSCC mantra and we throw a turbo at it in frustration (praying, all the while, that we don't get too familiar with "chargeback"). HGM, sadly, your take on the concern is very, very true.... When we perform our testing, we should do it under operating conditions (when the concern is evident). Unfortunately, I didn't see anything about "self-basting" in the job requirements.... When necessary, I include a line about "not being confident" that a part would operate as intended at all times. Sidebar... 05 and up steering dampers sometimes get an "unpredictable damping" explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcassidy111 Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 Jim, thanks for the info. I use MODE 6 quite often to diagnose intermittent MIL complaints (when interpretation information is avaiable since mode 6 data is not yet standardized). Do you know what the duration of failure time is to set an under or over boost code so I can get an idea of when to trigger the 'snap shot' (I don't have a 'flight recorder')? I like that 'not being confident' phrase, sounds better than 'unable to duplicate complaint'. HGM, I will try your preconditioning procedure prior to running the KA test though my problem is very intermittent. Trying to simulate the failure condition is the most dificult part of diagnosing intermittent no code driveability complaints. Numerous times I have driven customers cars back and forth to work (with their permission), scanner, o-scopes and volt meters on the the dash looking for intermittent problems-on my own time but the customer's gas. I solved my 'unpredictable damping' condition by adding a shock washer to each side of the frame mounted bushing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 23, 2006 Share Posted July 23, 2006 The unpredictable damping I am seeing is with the damper in my grubby little hands... No sign pf leakage but stroke it once and it is firm and the next stroke will collapse or extend a couple of inches before damping hits... FWIW, I have solved many concerns simply be connecting the VDR and sending the customer on his way... the unit comes back with the button never having been pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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