Keith Browning Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 I keep reading over and over again that "the dealer replaced my rear main seal for the bell housing leaks" and the posts usually mention several repair attempts to stop an oil leak. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif The amusing thing about this is they almost always report that the leak is still not fixed and turns out to be something else after replacing multiple rear seals. I personally have yet to see a single rear crank seal leak but that's not to say that it doesn't happen. Just about every possible source of engine oil leaks on a 6.0L PSD shows up at the bell housing sooner or later. Amazing but it's true! So let's try to get to the bottom of this oil leak enigma and collect our own data and come up with the most accurately common sources of oil leaks. Please participate in this two part poll and feel free to post comments as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted October 4, 2005 Share Posted October 4, 2005 Keith, a couple that were missed, cooler housing leaks[external]and oil filter caps. Both, by the way, have SSMs concerning leaks. Good poll just the same! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rockon.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 A lot of the oil "leaks" that I think we are reading about some kind of knee-jerk reaction (for want of using a better term). Some anal type sees a bit of dust clinging to a surface and now we have a major leak.... Vehicle costs are skyrocketting... consumers equate this with "better quality" rather than it being a fact of life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Jay Posted October 5, 2005 Share Posted October 5, 2005 Nav did some checking into this last year, and found that the majority of the "bellhousing" leaks were related to assembly lube leaking out of the torque converter, over time. These leaks generally appeared as "stains" on the bottom end of the bellhousing, and some trucks take quite a few miles before they fully "dry up." Their main thing to watch for was for actual drips, and/or the presence of the UV dye in the oil. Either could indicate a rear main leak, but they also found many other sources, as y'all have noted. Regards, Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 6, 2005 Author Share Posted October 6, 2005 Quote: Nav did some checking into this last year, and found that the majority of the "bellhousing" leaks were related to assembly lube leaking out of the torque converter, over time. Yeah, this fooled a lot of us. My first experience with a 6.0L leaking started out blaming this grease and ended up being a rough casting/machining of the bed plate sealing surface. The pictures of that one are in the Photographs gallery. Ironically, I discovered that the grease also reacts to a UV lamp and looks similar to oil with dye in it. I learned the hard way as this was before Ford put out a special service message on it. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/banghead.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Jay Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Huh! I didn't know the grease/lube also reacted to the UV lamp. Learn something new every day! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Later, Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordtechnician Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 I have a couple 2004's I service that have oil that blows up on the inside of the hood at the rear. So far no one has complained. I haven't investigated nor saw any ssms about it. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted October 12, 2005 Author Share Posted October 12, 2005 Quote: I have a couple 2004's I service that have oil that blows up on the inside of the hood at the rear. So far no one has complained. I haven't investigated nor saw any ssms about it. Any ideas? Wow, this is the first you are seeing this? It's usually caused by the CAC tube at the intake elbow. The plastic tubes don't always seal well. Try tightening the clamp a little or upgrade the tube to the metal one with the rubber connector hoses. I have also seen am SSM on oil filter cap seals leaking from not being replaced with the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWRStrokeMaster Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 Another thing to keep in mind is the cac clamp comming loose. I have found that if the calmp is torqued and then the vehicle driven hard, the clamp will actually need to be re-torqued when hot. I have gotten up to 5 more turns on the clamps when hot after I torqued it cold. Just an FYI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatevans Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 By "torque it" I assume you mean hit it with the cordless impact till it stops turning, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Overtorquing can cause the boots to split... not trying to be inciteful, impacts are great for taking stuff apart..... if we're putting stuff together, we need to be real careful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 impacts are great for taking stuff apart..... if we're putting stuff together, we need to be real careful... Good point actually. I have seen the results of my own and my coworkers over tightening of these clamps. We have even caused the clamps to distort to the point where they are actually bending and turning into a cone that pushes itself off the hose when tight. Got a problem CAC hose? REPLACE the hose and clamps and lean the pipes and turbo with Brakleen and dry them first. Once they are damaged, no amount of tightening will fix them. And on a lighter note: I will be pulling another 6.0L for a bed plate leak and replacing the short block assembly. I removed and resealed this one about a year ago and did some pretty heavy measuring and inspecting of the machined surfaces. The spaghetti gasket channel was machined very poorly, had a scalloped surface. I tried in vane to get Ford to approve a replacement but to no avail. NOW that a short block is available, I can REPAIR it and well under the $8200 cost cap. And this time the cab comes off. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_S Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I have to agree about the CAC tubes and the tightening. I have seen about every leak on the list including a bed plate, but most often it is 2 problems 1: half missing cam sensor o-rings and 2: CAC tubes that have been overtightened, not tightened or just incorrectly removed. I am finding fine cuts in the top hot side tube caused by the clamps on removal and eventually leak and or blow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cshjoslyn Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 i have yet to see a cac cooler tube spray on to the hood. seen many of them drip. the only repair for spraying on the hood for me has been the oil filter cap and oring. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec80 Posted December 20, 2005 Share Posted December 20, 2005 CAC tubes like to be retorqued, as the hoses take a set with time and temperature cycling. The hot side takes the most set. Try this: - After installing the hot-side CAC tube, drive the vehicle for 15 minutes or so. - Bring it back in, let cool for 1/2 hour. - Check all of the clamp torques. All will need retorquing, and I bet the clamp at the CAC inlet will take at least 1 full turn to come back to the 12Nm spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 A couple pics of a 6.0 marking its territory, the service bay! Oil Leak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Hope you don't mind, I stuck one of your pics on the server so we don't lose it from the thread. Great picture too! The last one like this I saw was a 2003 with fuel dilution of the oil, you know, a full crank case! The turbo was also seized and the engine grenaded in the parking lot after it "ran away" due to oil and fuel that filled the intercooler. As a matter of fact, there are pictures of that engine in the Photographs section. These are the jobs you end by taking the truck to the back of the lot and stand on the throttle for fifteen minutes to clear it out. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbup.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Glad you liked the picture. The turbo blew apart on this one and the oil just ran out the muffler as the engine idled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBET Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 HAVE AN 03 6.O CUST COMPLAINING OF OIL LEAK ANOTHER TECH ADDED DYE 800 KM OF DRIVING CHECKK WITH BLACK LIGHT NO DYE EVIDENT SOME OIL IS ON THE BELL HOUSING WITH NO SIGNS OF OIL COMING DOWN FROM REAR OR ANYWHERE ON SIDE OF BLOCK,L OOKS DRY PEEKIN IN THROUGH INSPECTION COVER,IS PULLING TRANNY ONLY WAY TO REALLY PINPOINT REAR MAIN AND BED PLATE LEAKS?OR WILL DYE EVENTUALLY COME OUT THROUGH SIDES OF BELL HOUSING? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 25, 2006 Author Share Posted March 25, 2006 If it's dry, what are you looking for? Was the proper amount of oil dye used? The proper concentration is one ounce of dye for every five quarts of oil therefore three one ounce bottles should have been used. I have also noted that the older and dirtier the oil is it tends to hide the dye making it less effective. As for bed plate leaks, whether its the bed plate seal or the (crank or cam) sensors, these tend to be slow seeping leaks that may take some time to migrate towards the rear of the engine. This will frustrate you if you know there is a leak but it's not showing. More and more, I am finding defective sensor seals. Take a bright flashlight and examine them carefully for any signs of oil wetness or staining. Any sign merits replacing the o-rings. Just remember that pretty much any leak on this engine will eventually show at the bell housing. A little intuition, patience and the will to take the time to examine every possible source will help you - if not to find the leak, rule out as many possibilities as you can. Once you start removing things like the trans, cab or engine, you are committed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 UBET, a lot of customers call a "sweating" an oil leak.... Ford tells us "if it ain't dripping, it ain't leaking...". If worst comes to worst, have the customer come in and show you the leak.... Many things appear to be "relative" in nature.... I can't count how many times I've cured a running concern simply by hooking up the VDR... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UBET Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 oh im well awhare of that, i d rather not disturb anything on these engines if i dont have to and unless its dripping, i dont even look, this guy came back a couple weeks later bell housing dry sent him on his way, i did replace a rear main on a 6.0 the other day mostly becuase it was diaganosed by another tech already but it was barely weaping, i personally would not have called it, the majority of leaks i have seen is cac tubes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleetingmoment Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 After putting in a new branch tube connection, this 6.0 had a few leaks. ( 4-mechanics at diffrent stages)The rear cover & rear main was changed than the high pressure pump cover was changed twice (t-joints leaking) cleaned it again found weeping from around the top of the oil cooler fixed that. Then it was the cam sensor o ring cut changed that. Than it was the front cover leaking right above the p/s pump so I changed the gasket plate & the front seal. Too Many Cooks Spoil The Soup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordtechnician Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Can someone post the part number(s) for the cam sensor seal? Yesterday I was all set to change the seal on one when the parts man came running out and said "I only have one of the two seals for it!" Also while we are at it, What is the crank sensor seal number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 31, 2006 Author Share Posted May 31, 2006 I had intended to answer this when you when you made the post, hope it's not too late. These are the part numbers for the o-rings only: CMP: 3C3Z- 9N693-JA (INNER) 3C3Z-9N693-HA (OUTER) CPK: 3C3Z-9C064-DA These were listed in SSM#17683 which has been removed from the Ford database. A new service message was released which added the oil filter cap and o-ring and mentions the CMP and CPK o-rings but the part numbers were left out. If anybody from Ford is reading this and knows who is in charge of SSM's, please send a big THANK-YOU for changing the SSM and leaving out those part numbers! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/drinkingdude.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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