mchan68 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Got a '99 E-450 with 185,000 kms. on the clock. Complaint is a hard-start cold (as per thread topic). Last this vehicle was here, was in May of '08 and less 2,000 kms. ago. Customer's description is that it needed a boost to the batteries, and a "temporary alternate fuel source" to get it started. Already had to new batteries replaced on the last visit. IDS test reveals very good loud "CLICKIES" on all eight, on the buzz test. Glow plug system appears to be functioning as needed. I'm getting hard faults for P0470/P1298/P1293/P1294. Engine started fine for me. Runs actually quite smooth. Just looking over PPT KA1 and NA20. I got a high EBP reading @ KOEO and noticed the oil seems on the thick side. Sooooooooo, I'm gonna be quoting an EBP and an oil change to 10W30 to start. Both the high side feeds (PK/YE and OG wires from IDM to VC) to both banks appear intact. Anything else I should be looking for? Like I said, the engine doesn't skip a beat at all when it's running, so I'm hesitant to be quoting an IDM. But that doesn't explain the above mentioned hard faults. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 You're definitely on the right track. The only things I'd add is to check the glow plug amperage to verify the system is working correctly. Put an inductive clamp on one of the relay leads and have a buddy turn on the key. It should hit around 190 initially, and taper off to 125 after 15 seconds. Verify cranking RPM is above 150 cold, it should be about 175 warm. With it sitting that much, I'd disconnect the batteries and load test them individually, too, even though they are new. If they've been run dead a couple of times, they're junk. '99's seem to have the most problem with the UVC harness becoming disconnected, too. Do you have a known good IDM for a test unit, if it comes to that? Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 No I don't have a test IDM unfortunately. But if the UVC harness were to become dislodged, wouldn't there be a burning smell evident too? Wouldn't it be misfiring too? Yes, the this morning it did crank very slowly before it finally started. I am hesitant to service/replace the batteries due to the type of "usage" this vehicle is subjected to (read VERY low mileage). The reason for this post is due to the lack of 7.3Ls coming into my shop, and hence the lack of experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shlep Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 By the sounds of what you're describing I'd be thinking the IDM is the cause but not having a test unit makes it a tough call, next time I'm up your way I'll run one over to you as I have about 4 spares from salvaged vehicles over the years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 No I don't have a test IDM unfortunately. Bummer. I have one, but getting it over the border.... There's an updated IDM for '99s to get rid of a IDM communication error DTC, too. There's also a ton of problems with getting water in Evan IDM's. Remove it and shake it, and see if it's full of water. Very common. (worthless seal kit F6UZ-13C795-AA & -BA) From my notes: Hard start; Stalling; Erratic idle and/or loss of power: DTC P1298 all models--95-96 Econoline in wet weather: Injector Driver Module (IDM). The IDM converts 12-volt battery power into 110 volts and activates the injectors as directed by the PCM. On some Econolines water may enter the IDM causing the above symptoms. To diagnose, remove the LH battery and the coolant overflow bottle and access the IDM which is mounted behind the coolant bottle. Remove the IDM (both ground strap bolts need to be removed) and shake it, listening for a sloshing sound. Water running off the roof and cowl areas can enter the IDM; there is a service replacement IDM--F6TZ-12B599-AA--which has improved sealing. Also install foam seals (1) F6UZ-13C795-AA and (2)-BA on the back of the IDM. If the DTC P1298 is alone when performing code retrieval, replace the IDM; if other codes are present, diagnose them first. A faulty IDM can cause drivability concerns similar to a malfunctioning ignition module in a gas-powered vehicle. Under load it will seem as if the engine is starving for fuel. If you verify good fuel and oil delivery and pressure to the heads, and the Mass Fuel Desired, ICP, IPR and Fuel PW readings climbs while the RPM’s drop, suspect the IDM. 97-99 E-vans Hard start/Long crank with aftermarket modifications may be caused by a loss of voltage to the Injector Drive Module during cranking. Run a dedicated circuit to terminal 85 of the IDM relay from the battery terminal of the starter relay using 10 gauge wire and a 30 amp sealed fuse. Secure this new wire, insulate and tape back the original wire as it will still have power for other circuits. TSB#98-26-9. 98/99 E-Van; 99 F-Series built through 4-12-99, Check engine light/DTC P1298: The Check engine light may illuminate on these trucks with a false trouble code P1298 (IDM failure). This may be due to circuit tolerance inside the Injector Driver Module setting the false code if battery voltage is low. Verify battery voltage is greater than 10 volts. Perform all scan tool code retrieval diagnostic tests. If any codes other than P1298 are retrieved, diagnose and repair these first. If P1298 is the only code retrieved, and the engine cranks good but doesn't start, test the glow plug system and check for voltage drop or PCM reset during cranking. If all of the above is OK, or the P1298 still exists after all repairs are done, clear the code, then cycle the key off and on three times, leaving the key in the on position for five seconds each time. Check Key On Engine Off codes and if P1298 is retrieved, or if P1298 returns with no other symptoms or codes, replace the IDM with P/N XC3Z-12B599-AA. TSB #99-13-2 But if the UVC harness were to become dislodged, wouldn't there be a burning smell evident too? Not necessarily. It can be burned/dislodged on either side of the gasket- on the visible side, or under the VC. I usually see it under the VC, more commonly on 99's, and usually the left side for some reason. Probably because on an F-model the hot CAC tube runs right over it. Wouldn't it be misfiring too? Yes, it can be cold misfire, but it is commonly intermittent. Just thinking out loud here- maybe it misfired for them, setting the codes, but they didn't mention it? Maybe Yes, the this morning it did crank very slowly before it finally started. Fixing this is Job 1 and may be your only problem. I am hesitant to service/replace the batteries due to the type of "usage" this vehicle is subjected to (read VERY low mileage). Eeeez Not My Problem, Man. Load test the MF and replace them, even if they were put in last week. To cust: You want it to start, right? You think it's gonna start in this weather with weak batteries? I've had this argument MANY time with customers who bought a part somewhere else- "I said it was BAD, not old." Being 10 years old, doing a voltage drop on the cables would be a great idea, too, and only take two minutes. The reason for this post is due to the lack of 7.3Ls coming into my shop, and hence the lack of experience. Is that enough crap for you to read? I think I'd get the cranking RPM up, change the oil, let her fly and see what happens. Maybe the DTCs are from weak batteries. Did you change the FF or take a fuel sample? Throw some lubricity enhancer in, too. If I had a nickel for every 7.3 I've fixed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Quote: If I had a nickel for every 7.3 I've fixed..... So that's where all the nickels went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Is that enough crap for you to read? I think I'd get the cranking RPM up, change the oil, let her fly and see what happens. Maybe the DTCs are from weak batteries. Did you change the FF or take a fuel sample? Throw some lubricity enhancer in, too. If I had a nickel for every 7.3 I've fixed..... Thanks. Pretty much most of that was what I had read too. Yes, I'm well aware that IDMs are well known to be "water traps". As of this writing right now, the customer "authorizes" the work, but refuses to pay, so I refuse to play. Thanks for the good info Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just curious, does plugging in the block heater change anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just curious, does plugging in the block heater change anything?Apparently the owner of this vehicle doesn't communicate well in English, is also a friend of the SM's. As I understand it, proper maintenance is not part of the equation, so it's getting an oil change to 10W30 (which it was due for anyways), and getting the boot (FUCK 'EM). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Well, if you weren't such a wiener and came down to Windsor every so often, I'm sure that between myself and Don we could get you fixed up with a test IDM. And get loaded, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.