Jim Warman Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Dwayne had replaced a turbo on a 6.0 - it was pumping oil out, the bearings and shaft obviously toast. The ends of the compressor fins were severely worn from contact with the housing.... The turbo (and the warranty claim) were sent back because the fins on the turbo were dusted- even though the customer concern had nothing to do with lack of power or lack of boost. We need to keep in mind that while we may see a failure in one way, warranty will see it in a much different light. Warranty acknowledged that the dusted fins make the bearings fail - but dusted is dusted and that's all that mattered. I wonder how many customers this new found initiative is going to piss off? At a time when Toyota is re-affirming their desire for a diesel pick-up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Adema Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I can understand your frustration, and Dwayne's, but I also understand FoMoCo's vigilance in rejecting that claim. In this return to economic reality that we find ourselves in, it makes prudent sense to be stringent in warranty allowances. If there was evidence of dusting, was it diagnosed and rectified? Was the customer prepared for the possibility of a warranty claim rejection? I hate to play devil's advocate, but I think we all need to pay close attention to the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 This is the thing, Jeff.... the concern was the oil consumption. There is no way to mistake that the turbo shaft and bearings had failed... FAILED!! The claim was submitted as a base oil system failure. The condition of the compressor fins was never considered. Here's the deal.... Ford denied the warranty claim on grounds that had nothing to do with the customer concern. Where does this leave us? Let's say we have a failure in the base oil system that costs a short block. Ford looks at the old block assembly and decides that there is evidence of cylinder dusting and denies the claim. We are now trapped in a conumdrum.. we will be the ones bearing the brunt of the customers wrath... we will be the ones waiting to see what "hidden treats" might be found in any claim. Think - "my radio wont receive FM stations". Reply... "There is a homemade CD label stuck in the player". Think - "I know... but I want to listen to the radio... not CDs...". We are entering a time where it matters not what the customer concern is... The turbo is pissing oil into the exhaust - that is the customer concern. Ford can abuse this system and it will be us that pays the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 I had a claim charged back quite recently. One that comes to mind, anyways. 04 6.0, egr cooler pissing coolant into the exhaust, oil cooler fucked, filling the cooling system with oil. I diag using 08-11-3, slam coolers on it, flush the cooling system using 08-23-1 (i think thats the number). They kick it back, saying I didn't use the correct TSB to diag (supposed to use Oil In Engine Coolant). Got the guy from Warranty on the phone. Asked him. You want me to change the oil cooler, then put it all back together, then bill Ford to change the EGR cooler 'cause it's leaking? Or you just want me to claim both TSB's and get paid twice for a job I only did once? Silence on the other end of the phone. Also had a claim kicked because I billed coolant out on the workorder. They said that the truck should have had coolant in it when it was brought in. Well, had the EGR cooler not failed, I believe that it probably would have had coolant in it! Want me to chase the truck around with a mop and mop up the antifreeze that pisses out the tailpipe? And my last kicker? I changed an ICP in an 05 E series. Documented, PRECISELY what I did. Instead of putting a ZERO for 0V, I had accidentally put a letter "O". They kicked the claim back saying I didn't support my repair. I can't wait to see what happens with the last one I just turned in...04 6.0, Triple Crown package, heads warped all to fuck, and I resealed the HPOP cover while I had the heads/cab off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 8, 2009 Author Share Posted March 8, 2009 The paper trail is getting sickening... think 08-25-09, 08-25-08, 08-25-07 and 08B07. Did you reprogram under a TSB or the FSA? Does it matter? Should it matter? Will it matter? FWIW, I did a 08B07 last week and the TCM ran away from home on me... "Save your existing session" and "Open a new session". After you replace the TCM do a PMI on the PCM.... WTF is that? Dot your "I"s, cross your "T"s and wipe your ass from front to back - the warranty cops are after blood - yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 8, 2009 Share Posted March 8, 2009 For awhile there, EVERY fuckin 6.4 recall I did, it would need to recover the TCM programming. I was commenting the other day they might as well do away with the ENGINE / PERFORMANCE DIAG section in the SLTS for 6.0 Diesel...every fuckin thing is covered by some applicable TSB/SSM/FSA/CSP/etc. ICPRAKKHlkjhflkjhjkdsafh! Fuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Mutter Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I had a 6.0 that had a stiction problem,so I did the tsb 08-26-3,did all the test and found the ficm was ok,the truck did not have inductive heat so I reprogramed and re tested, the truck runs good now,got the claim kicked back because they said I did not follow the tsb? I don't know what ford wants from us but it is getting dumb how much they are kicking back, how many of you guys get pay deduction if a claim get kicked back? they don't do that hear but I have talk to some techs that have to deal with it all the time,thats a raw deal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekanik Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I was commenting the other day they might as well do away with the ENGINE / PERFORMANCE DIAG section in the SLTS for 6.0 Diesel...every fuckin thing is covered by some applicable TSB/SSM/FSA/CSP/etc. Funny you should mention this. There were 2 techs at our shop that had a "meeting" ( )with some warranty nazi earlier this year. This guy told the 2 techs that EVERY 6.0l drivability repair should refrence some tsb because there is a tsb for EVERYTHING that could cause a drivability on a 6.0L. If you think about this there are plenty other things that could cause the engine to not run or run poorly that there isn't a tsb for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share Posted March 9, 2009 My personal take... Ford is desparately trying to "direct" our diagnostic efforts... Step 9(?) in the FICM TSB addresses three possible scenarios but misses the one scenarios that we 'usually' see. FICM_LPWR and FICM_VPWR at B+ with FICM_MPWR at much less that 45 volts.... At this point, the TSB becomes superfluous.... Yet (from memory) the TSB doesn't specifically allow us to deviate from the TSB when this situation arises... Your name is Yossarian... and don't you forget it..... (read Catch 22). We are being hung out to dry on technicalities.... To make matters worse, the FICM TSB directs us to fool the PCM into thinking the oil is cold.... "Let us close our eyes and pretend that the oil is cold". PHUQUE me... let us close our eyes and pretend the motor runs good.... Let us close our eyes and pretend that the mnotor actually started... Let us close our eyes and pretend that Ford is actually trying to help us, here. This past week, one of our techs dropped the pan on a 5R110 to reveal significant metal deposits.... Prior approval now insists on a tear-down... It ain't hard to cost cap this SOB, so why bother? You know that the tear down will be half hearted and is nothing more than a waste of time. Yet we will insist on wasting time, resources and money in hopes that somewhere, the tech will make an identifiable error in procedure.... and the whole kibosh can be charged back with a hearty "fuck you - fuck you very much". Bottom line - we will be trapped in the middle and, by association, we will take the customer there with us... In our society, it is not uncommon to shoot the messenger.... and Ford will appear blameless while we will look like SellC.... Coming soon to a theater near you.... Fords explanation of how, if the dealer had done things "right" to begin with.... the problem wouldn't exist.... So... let's close our eyes and pretend that the oil is cold..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Same as a teardown on a CVT when you find the pan full of chrome oil and shrapnel. Let me see, a fuckin valvebody is $1400, and variators are some ungodly amount each. $2600 or some such pricing. Yeah, I'll tear it down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 Same as a teardown on a CVT when you find the pan full of chrome oil and shrapnel. Let me see, a fuckin valvebody is $1400, and variators are some ungodly amount each. $2600 or some such pricing. Yeah, I'll tear it down Both the tranny guys in my shop have gotten fucked over with the very scenario you described, including one where the tech directed to tear it apart, wait for approval, replace the variator assembly, only to be told to put in a new unit AFTER he had already assembled it with a new variator assembly!!! All this is going on while his bay was down, with a vehicle in the air that couldn't be pushed out of the shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I was told by the hotline, if'n there's metal in the variators, she's junk. Every one I've had apart that's had metal in the pan has had metal in the variators. And a TFT overtemp code set at almost 300 degrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 I was told by the hotline, if'n there's metal in the variators, she's junk. Every one I've had apart that's had metal in the pan has had metal in the variators. And a TFT overtemp code set at almost 300 degrees. This wouldn't be caused by the old input shaft snapping would it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Don't think I've ever seen one BROKE, but I stickhandled the last one to a guy down the shop that's really good at swapping 'em out, and has an extra hoist so he can wait for prior approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Welcome to the 'FORD BAILOUT PLAN' Where the bailout isn't from the government.....it's from the dealerships!!!! We'll just deny every warranty claim we can(for the most retarded reason we can come up with)! Had a claim kicked back at my old dealership where the tech wrote the egr cooler was blown....in reality the cooler was plugged - weighed probably 10lbs more than normal. So Ford kicked the claim on symantics. Failed is failed.....should've still been warantable but I guess if you write the wrong word....you're screwed!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 FAULTY, FAULTY, FAULTY! Always use the word FAULTY in your story sentences my friends. It is a very broad word that covers a very wide range! Educate everyone in your dealerships about this one very simply word. Examples: Faulty EGR cooler, faulty head gaskets, faulty heads, faulty turbo, faulty FICM, faulty engine and so on and so on. I guess FUCKED could be a substitute for FAULTY though. I kinda like FUCKED myself. There we have it, Political correctness with only two words! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 One of our diesel techs had a claim kicked back on a glow plug relay. He charged for glow plug system diag-Ford actually said you don't need glow plugs for July in Texas. So they weren't paying for the diag. My question is, why does the PCM monitor the glow plugs if the ambient temp is 100F? The MIL should not even come on. As techs, we're the ones fixing these turds and "saving face" for Ford. Pretty soon they won't have anyone to fix 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 He charged for glow plug system diag-Ford actually said you don't need glow plugs for July in Texas. So they weren't paying for the diag. Silly boy, you don't need glow plugs in Texas in July. You already knew that. My question is, why does the PCM monitor the glow plugs if the ambient temp is 100F? The MIL should not even come on. You're obviously referring to a 7.3 'cause it's got a GP relay, right? The PCM doesn't care about (or monitor) GP operation on 7.3's unless they're Gen 2 Cal emissions or 1-2 years of Expeditions, which have the same GPM as the 6.0. Older 7.3 Cal emissions (Generation 1) have a glow plug "shunt" that watches glow plug amperage and rats to the PCM when it's low. If the "money light" came on when the relay was bad, every frigging money light would be on between NYC and LA. Boy, did we make MONEY on those bastards.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 We in texas are quite aware that you do not need glow plugs in july but I still get check engine lights all the time in the summer for faulty glow plugs. And yes I do charge for the glow plug diag and have never had a problem. It should not matter whether you need them or not. They are part of the engine controls and are monitored by the pcm and the gpcm. The only way to tell what the problem is is to perform glow plug diag. I guess next time just tell the customer that he does not need them in the summer and not worry about it until the winter time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 I have a 2000 Excursion in right now with the Check Engine light on, DTC's P1391 and P1393. The relay is shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Perhaps I should refresh my info on Excursions because I almost never see them, just F's and E's. I didn't intend to come across cocky, Greg. Have a great weekend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregKneupper Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 Sorry Bruce, that was not my intention. I was directing that statement toward ford, not at you. I found it funny that they said it did not matter in texas because it is so hot. Truth is that it does matter. It is part of the truck and needs to be fixed and fixed correctly. That includes diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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