08 6.4 crankcase overfilled

robp823 · March 17, 2009

Got an 08 f-250 6.4 come in with the complaint of a loud bang then truck shut off.Truck is lifted and im guessing the air filter was clogged because when i opened the hood the clips were undone on the filter lid, the inatke hose clamp was still loose ,the filter minder was unplugged and the air filter was brand new.Also if they went through all that trouble you would have thought they would just hit the button on the filter minder to reset it Posted Image .The batteries were dead but when i finally got it started it it blew white smoke and has what almost sounds like a lifter tap. Crankcase was way overfilled and had DTC's P1336,P2291.So now im following TSB 07-8-9. Disconnected cac tube at bottom of cac and about a quart and a half of oil came out. Drain engine and way more than 14 quarts came out and oil stank of fuel and was almost like water.Ran engine again with proper amount of oil but still had my tap/knock and continued to blow white smoke.Did relative compresion with cylinder 2 down 2%.Did this with engine hot.Ran power balance ,cylinders 2 and 7 were down and when you turn fuel correction off the truck would almost stall.Then power balance was all over the place.Im following section A of TSB 07-8-9 and im about to pull the valve covers.This is the deepest ive been into a 6.4 so far and im just wandering if there is any tips you guys have for me or what i should be looking for???Maybe one or two of you guys ran into this before.

Help always appreciated!

mchan68 · March 18, 2009

Stupid question. Did you check OASIS for 09B08?

kridd12 · March 18, 2009

WOW... that is errily creepy to the one we have in the shop at this moment. # 2 is down on relative copression. the power balance is all over the map some days 5 cylinder will miss others none it knocks a bit when it starts to miss all eight injectors already replaced, lh head replaced. still have not resolved situation. Mr Warman is still mystified, so is hotline.

Aaron · March 18, 2009

Where's the oil coming from in the CAC?

07-8-9 directs you to inspect for turbo oil leaks and to check air inlet restriction so it's not sucking oil from the crankcase vent.

robp823 · March 18, 2009

Mchan68-Not a stupid question, This might be a stupid answer though i thought when the service writers run oasis that it would let you know automatically when running the vin????

Aaron-It was sucking oil through the crankcase vent before i set the oil to the correct level.Inspected in intake and was all soaked with oil. Also when removed bottom cac tube at bottom of the cac about a quart and a half of oil/fuel came out.The oil was broken down from the fuel and was almost like black water.Im following section A of the tsb because that section covers the dtc's i have but i have not seen any external nor any evidence of turbo leakage.

Keith Browning · March 18, 2009

Actually i think i got my first 6.4 doing that today topic is in 6.4 forum and your right not a good sound.

Be sure you are checking OASIS for open recalls. 09B08 addresses bad fuel injectors that I recently learned are suspect in many engine failures caused by melted pistons, hydrolocked cylinders and damaged EGR coolers.

robp823 · March 18, 2009

supposly when you run oasis it should flag a truck with recall for the injectors double checked it this morning anyway and wasnt one of them

robp823 · March 19, 2009

Had a chance to play with the truck more today found sft-trim for cylinder 2 at almost 20.

Jim Warman · March 19, 2009

Cylinder #2, no less... that is nearly frightening...

You might read "One helluva 6.4 problem" just for shits and giggles.

For my money, the relative compression test is useless on this truck... The other day I had some time for it, #2 and (IIRC) #5 were 5% on a relative comp test.... Today, this heartache showed up on my dance card yet again... 7 and 6 were down 1% Another day, one or two other cylinders will complain....

The truck may run like a champ.... or it may run like a bag of crap - at one point it ran on only three cylinders.... It might issue a lot of white smoke... but then it might run perfect.... it may drip what looks like fuel and water from the exhaust (collect a sample and it looks like water with a scum of fuel on top and very yellow/orange in colour).

This truck has had 9 fuel injectors in very recent history.... no it isn't up for 09B08. Manual compression test didn't prove or disprove anything in my mind (might I have valve train components that are intermittent problems?) This truck has a new cylinder head on the left side.... When it runs good, it runs good... when it runs bad, #2 will be involved (this is the original bad cylinder - it is home to its third injector in less than 500 clicks).

It may have a single, well defined tap at idle that doesn't go away with cylinder kill or it may be as quiet as a pristine engine... or it may be somewhere in between - on all counts.

It is still on my dance card for tomorrow (Thursday) AM when I will, once again, call lukewarm line. Stay tuned to DTS for breaking news (partly because I'm still not allowed back on inFord).

robp823 · March 20, 2009

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This is what the glow plugs looked liked when i pulled them out today.Is this caused from overfueling? I also did compression test with cylinder 2 with 335psi and cylinder 8 340psi.The rest were up around 375-380 psi. I also ran the engine today wih the valve covers off and could find no fuel leaks in high pressure system.By the way Jim one helluva 6.4 problem was a good read and i will never trust relative compression on a 6.4 again Posted Image

robp823 · March 22, 2009

Keith Browning · March 22, 2009

This is what the glow plugs looked liked when i pulled them out today.Is this caused from over fueling? I also did compression test with cylinder 2 with 335psi and cylinder 8 340psi.The rest were up around 375-380 psi. I also ran the engine today with the valve covers off and could find no fuel leaks in high pressure system.By the way Jim one helluva 6.4 problem was a good read and i will never trust relative compression on a 6.4 again

Rob, the glow plugs are oil covered because a little oil pools around where they sit in the head. The plugs seal at the bottom of the body where the electrode/element sticks out. When you pull them out the oil covers them like that. As for your compression readings, if we take your readings of 380 PSI as a baseline and multiply that by 0.10 we get 38 PSI as your maximum variation. Cylinders #2 and #8 are basically "there" meaning you have a base engine concern.

I recently had a problem engine that had both a mechanical failure and a performance related failure, a piston beginning to melt. That cylinder tested only slightly better than the numbers you posted. According to what the Hot-Line Engineers and my FSE are telling us, excessive crankcase oil levels are contribution to engine failures, affecting cylinders predominantly on bank #2. The first thing you need to check is for oil in the lower CAC tube which is a good indication of what is going on and what you are likely going to find. This is not necessarily 100% accurate though, my engine had NO oil in the lower CAC tube.

I recommend that you neatly organize your test data and contact the Hot-Line and see what they have to tell you.

You are likely headed for a cab in the air and pulling the left cylinder head. Keep Ford in the loop and document everything you do or are told by Ford - I recommend printing your Hot-Line contact every time it is updated.

I am also informed that this is also the reason for the injector recall. Is this engine affected by 09B08?

robp823 · March 22, 2009

no not affected by 09B08 and yes the lower cac tube had about a quart and a half of oil/fuel in it.So whats going on the injectors leaking or just shooting to much fuel and melting pistons from the heat?

Keith Browning · March 22, 2009

The oil in the CAC tube is related to the crankcase over fill condition. The injectors can still be at fault even if the engine is not affected by the recall. Any leak in the high pressure fuel system will dilute the engine oil. To be honest, I don't have an accurate answer as to how this is causing melted pistons...

Jim Warman · March 22, 2009

I am told that as little as two quarts overfull on crankcase level can set one of these engines up as the "beginning of the end" - this is due to the design of the crankcase vent system and the fact that these engines run "very high" crankcase pressures.

I was told of one truck that was repaired and sent out on the test track... and lasted only two hundred miles.

In another case, I had a truck that covered the degas bottle with motor oil. The air filter was wet - I am unsure if crankcase level was overfull. Hotline concurred with my assumption that the crankcase vent likely froze off and the crankcase pressure pumped oil up the dipstick tube... The fix for this truck was an oil change, dye added and an engine shampoo - no further repairs required.

In my "Helluva" truck, #1 glow plug came out with the tip almost entirely pure white... no this truck is not losing coolant.

robp823 · March 23, 2009

hmmmm Posted Image I ran the engine and did a visual of the high pressure system but could not find anything.Im already low on compression so im not gonna continue with that diagnoses.Im gonna lift the cab and rip the head off. But next time im gonna fill the secondary housing with dye then run it.There was another test too cant remember though something to test to see if the high pressure pump is leaking

Gary_P · March 26, 2009

get a fuel sample out of the common rail, you won't get much, perhaps koeo you can get a bit more. then sift it through a coffee filter. metal particles = fuel system overhaul. check HFCM filter. look for FF on the filter. check your mileage..........uh-oh...someone hasn't been doing his maintenance with 1900 hours on the engine. Don't ask me how I know

overfilled the crankcase, partially melted 6.....yes 6 pistons and bent a rod. needless to say that repair was a learning experience.

Keith...Carl Windiseh says hi!

robp823 · March 27, 2009

Well finally got to work on this thing again and got the head off.The head checked out ok with the new procedure and valves look alrite as well.This picture is cylinder 2 the one i had SFT +20 on. The pictures dont do it justice because they were takin with my phone but the piston is actually started to melt.It is deformed and the cylinder wall is scuffed pretty good.The answer i got from hotline is because the crankcase was overfilled(usually a lack of maintenance) It sucked oil/fuel up through the breather and back through the intake which was acting as extra fuel.

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