The 6.7L Scorpion Forum Is Open

[Jim Warman]

Man... DTS and IE7 don't play well together...

 

I had typed out a really neat reply and, trying to add a smiley, the worlds orbit changed....

 

Anyway... the gist is that I didn't think you were picking on me... With the hype that SCR and urea are receiving, we are lead to believe that they are a panacea...

 

You, sir... are either a breath of fresh air.... or a blast of bus exhaust.....

 

I remember the very first faulty EGR valve concern I ran across.... 1974.... F150 with a 360 CID.... I would like to think that we have a magic bullet when, in fact, we have been doing nothing more than putting salve on a wound that refuses to heal....

[ktmlew]

At what point does the EPA/CARB legislation/regulation make the internal combustion engine (ICE) not feasible? Exactly how "clean" can we afford to be when there is no technology to replace the ICE?

[Cetane]

I think we are about there. That is pretty much what killed everyone's midrange diesel. When you look at the cost of the aftertreatment and the added maintenance along with the decreased fuel economy gap, it just didnt make sense.

 

Things are going to get better though. Technology will improve and components will get cheaper. I think you will always have a diesel in an HD truck but as other options start to emerge I am not sure if diesel will ever gain a foothold anywhere else. Ecoboost, HEV/PHEV/BEV and maybe some form of hydrogen will probably end up being the dominant technologies for the next 20 years.

 

Unfortunately, the conditions which made a diesel so efficient in the past are the same things that make it so difficult to clean up. Thats not going to change. Hopefully technology will...

[jaysonfordtech]

Well I was thinking the same thing, the diesel engine will never be able to match the emission of a gas engine and be cheaper to own and operate in a light duty application. As for the hydrogen thing I have come to believe it is the fuel of the future and always will be. Here in the us we have decided that clean air is more important than fuel economy. We will just have to live with the consequences of that decision.

[Jim Warman]

Something I've been saying for quite some time, Jayson... While our oil reserves are being called "finite", air quality is still the stickler. Can the earth keep up with the burgeoning population? Can she hope to "filter" the debris we throw at her? (Pre-emissions controls news stories indicate a resounding no).

 

So, in order to protect one nonrenewable resource, we squander another in the hope that technology will come to our rescue.

 

Too bad most of you guys missed the years when you could walk into the showroom and see a car with multiple carbs - from the factory.

[Aaron]

Too bad most of you guys missed the years when you could walk into the showroom and see a car with multiple carbs - from the factory.

I only wish.

[vloney]

With creative prying, I got......18 headbolts per side, egr valve/cooler/module is all one unit, reverse flow, dual turbo (one shaft), it is VGT, with the introduction of the 6.7, the torqueshift goes away (we get a 6r140), 90% of all operations will be cab on.

[cbriggs]

Awww, i (meaning my back) kind of like cab off repairs now. Especially torquing 36 head bolts!!!!! lol.

[Keith Browning]

With creative prying, I got......18 headbolts per side, egr valve/cooler/module is all one unit, reverse flow, dual turbo (one shaft), it is VGT, with the introduction of the 6.7, the torqshift goes away (we get a 6r140), 90% of all operations will be cab on.

I got similar info from my FSE and the conversation began with labor times being much lower compared to the 6.4L. To add to your list the valve covers and the intake manifolds are integrated and the oil cooler is externally mounted on the block. The odd thing was he said "they" were not sure who was making the transmission. Not sure exactly what that meant considering the engine is slated for production in 6 months or less. What trans is in the test mules?

[vloney]

Dont know about the test mules. I was told the high pressure pump will be in the front as well.

[Keith Browning]

Yep. But let us hope these things hold together. Bosch will be the injector supplier too...

[Cetane]

The odd thing was he said "they" were not sure who was making the transmission.

 

What trans is in the test mules?

 

"They" must be FSE's because "we" have known for a while...

 

Test mule trannies depend on when they were built. Most have production level now.

[Keith Browning]

FSE'w would be correct. I thought that sounded odd.

[mpatron]

The 6r180 is just a larger version of the 6r60. I'm told it makes the Torqshift look small. I was also told the truck was designed for cab-on repairs. After the hassle of rethinking the 6.4l cab-off procedures as cab-on options for vehicles with add-on equipment that prevents cab removal, and dealers without proper lifts, it seems to make sense.

[Aaron]

Yeah, but we weren't supposed to take 6.0 truck cabs off, either....

[BrunoWilimek]

Yeah, but we weren't supposed to take 6.0 truck cabs off, either....

Also, on a side note, nowhere in the 09 F150 shop manual could I find reference to removing the cab for any kind of repair, yet the bolts come up from the bottom and everything comes apart so easily that cab removal is definitely the way to go if performing any major repairs. The shop manual says to remove engine to replace head gaskets, but after lifting the cab on one, I would never consider removing the engine just for head gaskets. We will have to get our hands on one of these trucks(6.7 scorpion) to see which way works best for us. Even then, there will always be advocates for leaving the cab in place, even if they are a definite minority. Different strokes for different folks, right?

[mpatron]

A BMW instructor told me that when their diesel car runs out of "DIESEL EXHAUST FLUID" (no, it's not compatible with Prefamulated Amulite, and it is not a lubricant substitute for muffler bearings), it will NOT RESTART. I was wondering if all manufactures with SCR would have to implement that strategy by law...derating the engine makes a lot more sense. Otherwise, like you said, the customer would just keep driving. The site www.meca.org has some nice information on SCR and other emission controls.

[Aaron]

That'd be awesome in between Enterprise, NT and High Level, AB in Canada. There isn't even a FUEL STATION, let alone somewhere to get "Diesel Exhaust Fluid"

[Brad Clayton]

Sounds like you could open yourself up a station in that region there little dubber, and sit back and count your millions.

[rockymtn003]

Ford is trying to line up the urea tank refill at a typical oil change interval. We will see. typical is hard to define with a super duty owner

[Aaron]

"Typical" oil change interval

[Jim Warman]

That'd be awesome in between Enterprise, NT and High Level, AB in Canada. There isn't even a FUEL STATION, let alone somewhere to get "Diesel Exhaust Fluid"

At a place called Indian Cabins, there use to be a little ESSO station... overpriced fuel, mosquitoes so big you'd have to chain your dog down and the best fucking clubhouse sandwich in the world.... That was just this side of the Alberta NWT border... back when you were travelling from one of daddies nuts to the other, I was pulling switches to Indian Cabins when the barges were running.

[jimmy57]

Went to the TX state fair and looked over the SD's with the new engines.

6.7 looks to have an advantage over 6.0/6.4. Some of the plumbing looks complicated but maybe a tad less complicated than 6.4. Turbo replacement will be tougher.

I was surprised at the small diameter of the exhaust elbows connecting the exh manifolds to turbine housing.

The cutaway truck shows the DEF tank to have several items mounted on it. I assume a heater, a fluid type sensor, and a fluid level sensor.

 

I also looked at the new 3/4 and 1 ton dodges and they did finally produce a REAL crew cab with an 8 foot bed. The new interior looks nice but I did notice that the Dodge version of a leather seat has almost no leather on it. Side bolsters and front of lower cushion is Pleather.

 

6.2 has much wider cylinder heads than the mod motors (I guess this is more or less a mod motor big brother) but nothing scary under the hood from what I could see.

[Aaron]

^^^^ Yeah but I bet in less than 10k every trim piece/accessory inside that Dodge rattles.

 

If the trans lasts that long.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted By: Aaron

Yeah, but we weren't supposed to take 6.0 truck cabs off, either....

Also, on a side note, nowhere in the 09 F150 shop manual could I find reference to removing the cab for any kind of repair, yet the bolts come up from the bottom and everything comes apart so easily that cab removal is definitely the way to go if performing any major repairs.

I did an 05 and bolts were up through the bottom also. Several of them were loose.