ninja972r Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Is Ford out of they'er fricken mind. Tsb 09-8-3 is a revised TSB with revised labor times. Count on losing a hour for any of the labor operations. The 6.0's must be easier to work on now. Ford makes me sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Well I just happened to be finishing up a head gasket job that actually had a bad EBP and a rusted turbo to boot. I had already coded it out with TSB 08-11-03 for the coolant loss and TSB 08-16-13 which came to 28.9 hours. The new TSB 09-8-3 rearranged some of the operations and the times accordingly. Ford also added operations for reconditioning the turbo and replacing the CRH if needed. Recoding my repair with the new TSB comes to 26.3 for a total difference of 2.6 hours... which accounts for an overlap... read on. If you look at this from the perspective that you used to have to claim two TSB's, one for the coolant loss and the other for the turbocharger, technically we were getting a nice overlap since the turbo was already out of the truck. I really don't see this as a major hit in all fairness. Yes, I like to get paid and I think Ford is really trimming things where they can, but we really cant say this is unfair or get all worked up over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I don't know that I ever got 26 hours to do head gaskets (or even replace the heads), much less 28-something. Our SM made absolutely sure that we claimed as little as possible just to keep our 126 in line. I think on average I'd hover around 20, regardless of how much work was done (turbo rebuild, EGR/Oil coolers, anything like that..) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 OPs 081103-A,B and E come to 24.9 - add 4.0 for the turbo as per TSB 081613-F and you get 28.9 hours. If you are not getting paid what you should be because your warranty/dealer administration is not doing their job then you do have something to be angry about. I would be! My dealer is careful about what we claim but the work is what it is. We are honest and properly repair these vehicles. Ford can stick their 126 reports... We cant control the quality of their product nor can we control how many of the shit buckets get dragged into our dealerships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Much agreed upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hempstead Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 This is one of many reasons I left the dealership to drive a truck, if I had the two concerns my WA and SM would only claim one Tsb and I argued until I was blue in the face and got nowhere, now they have no senior master tech at all and no one with diesel certs, life must be tough back with them. They did hire a replacement one of my buddies told me and he had spent over 3 days trying to diag a egr cooler. I just know i am in a better place know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I would bet an update to TSB 07-23-14 (oil in coolant) will be forthcoming to only replace the heat exchanger in that instance, too. I did have an old oil cooler laying under my bench that came from a customer repair. I tore it apart and tossed the plugged heat exchanger away. After a long hot soak in the parts washer the cover looks brand new. Now when I get this repair I can put the new heat exchanger on this clean cover and keep moving on the job at hand. The oil cooler off that rig can be torn down and cleaned later at my leisure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony302600 Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I don't know that I ever got 26 hours to do head gaskets (or even replace the heads), much less 28-something. Our SM made absolutely sure that we claimed as little as possible just to keep our 126 in line. I think on average I'd hover around 20, regardless of how much work was done (turbo rebuild, EGR/Oil coolers, anything like that..) Dave But now you dont ever have to worry about that Dave L....hows the new job outside the concentration camp of a dealership? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Well... different. Being paid hourly is a nice incentive, for sure. It makes "slow" periods a little nail-biting to a degree, but then again. what can I do. I'm hoping that within time I'll be able to bring some 6.0 business to the place, I am well aware that people aera looking for alternatives to dealerships for servicing their 6.0's and I feel that a shop with a good reputation advertising that they have a 6.0/Powerstroke tech on hand can only bring in more customers than they would normally have. I still have all the necessary access to FMCdealer as well so keeping up-to-date with all the changes shouldn't be terribly unrealistic. I really do, to a degree, miss the hell out of fixing these things. I just don' tmiss the constant butt-banging offered by our shops methods of manipulating the 126 numbers. As for now, there was a newer Impala here that was at **3** different dealers for a no-power driveability concern. So far, it's had a bunch of parts, including a new body-control module and an Ignition module as well. As soon as I got the thing, it seemed like the exhaust was restricted. Vaccuum readings agree, turns out I had over 2psi in the exhaust AT IDLE. my 10psi gauge pegged on WOT snap, lol... ...I just finished popping the trans out of a 4x4 Honda Pilot, that was an interesting 3+ hours. Definitely a learnign curve here with all the other makes & models. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Well, I just got finished one yesterday. So this is an interesting situation I have on my hands right now. Since the RO date is 04/13/09, but the TSB publication date for us Canadian dealers is 04/14/09, which TSB do I claim, since we no longer have access to link to 08-11-03 in the OASIS tab? Also, I noticed it lists a new part number 3C3Z-6A642-CA (oil cooler kit) versus 3C3Z-6A642-AA. What are the differences between the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 You have to use the new TSB because it supersedes the previous one. I am not positive but I don't think the RO date is as important as the claim submission date. I just finished one up myself and we used the new TSB because we had one or two claims bounce in the past in this situation. I wish I could remember for sure. The oil cooler kit is just the heat exchanger, not the entire oil cooler. Yes, you are now rebuilding it. 2174 - REPLACEMENT OIL COOLER SERVICE KIT IN TSB 09-08-03 DOES NOT REQUIRE PRIOR APPROVAL RECENTLY RELEASED TSB 09-08-03 SUPERSEDES TSB 08-11-03, WHICH INCLUDES THE RELEASE OF A NEW OIL COOLER SERVICE KIT (P/N 3C3Z-6A642-CA). THE OIL COOLER SERVICE KIT INCLUDES A SERVICEABLE HEAT EXCHANGER. WARRANTY PRIOR APPROVAL THROUGH THE TECHNICAL SERVICE HOTLINE IS REQUIRED FOR CERTAIN DIESEL ENGINE COMPONENTS; INCLUDING THE 6.0L OIL COOLER ASSEMBLY. REPLACEMENT OF THE NEW OIL SERVICE KIT IN TSB 09-08-03 DOES NOT REQUIRE PRIOR APPROVAL. WARRANTY PRIOR APPROVAL IS ONLY REQUIRED FOR REPLACEMENT OF THE COMPLETE OIL COOLER ASSEMBLY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 I have been in that situation many times Mike. You base it on your time ticket repair date. If your ticket is the 13th, you go with the old TSB. If it is later than that, then, you go with the new TSB. This is one of the many reasons I print off the TSB's and keep an archive. I have even had to fax them Nazi bastards copies at times. Not only that Keith, if there is an oil cooler charged out on the R.O, them bastards will for sure kick it back and you will want to charge for the old TSB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_P Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 The "instruction" sheet that comes with the new heat exchanger is pretty damn generic. we have an additional O-ring we cannot figure out where it belongs....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 Not only that Keith, if there is an oil cooler charged out on the R.O, them bastards will for sure kick it back and you will want to charge for the old TSB. Nah, this truck only got head gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamageINC Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 There is a thread on the FMC forums in the Diesel section that explains where the 'extra' O-ring goes. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninja972r Posted April 17, 2009 Author Share Posted April 17, 2009 Keep in mind ford is doing alot of self auditing. Make sure you write up the TSB and results to match. I'm at a level one dealership, and they are asking for documantation on all test results. Print the PVT DCL display out if your going after head gaskets.Print the ECT and EOT temps on the datalogger if you are going after the oil cooler. Fan clutch speed for replacement. I even video record the vaccum and pressure testing for back up. It is just getting worse. Have all your bullets before turning in that RO for payment. I know from experince. Let FORD eat shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Bruce, Keith and I'm sure Jim would love to see you post your recordings here, as well as other's I forgot to mention(sorry Dwayne).... I would personally be interested in seeing them... This might help down the road with me... Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 See, that's the crap I'm talkin about. Up here they are kicking back every single freakin R.O. I had a FICM R.O kicked back that I had every test performed and every spec written out and they kicked it back because I didn't mention which step numbers they belonged to such as Step 1, step 4, Step 9 or step 11. I have also had other R.O's kicked back because I wrote some of the specs on my IDS printouts and wrote on the R.O: See IDS printouts. They told me that these Printouts don't mean crap because they are not part of the R.O. I now write on my R.O's: see IDS printouts because these are part of my Damned story. And I now put every single little freakin test step and not just the tests and specs. I swear, I'm gonna go freakin postal and make a trip to Oakville to wrap my hands around some of their freakin little necks. I just won't make that trip in a damned Sick-0 or a 6.4l because I probably won't ever make it there. You up for a booze cruise, Grampy? Maybe we can stop by and pick up Aaron and Alex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I'm in for a road trip and will navigate for you guys up north, if you pick up the guys from Windsor you'll need a guide thru Detroit. On Edit: I think if one of you comes up with a procedure to get the claims paid maybe it should get posted here to help the other guys with their obvious problems with warranty submission. Keith this might be a good place to put a new thread, Maybe Warranty claim help??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I would add a forum for anything needed but you cant add everything and anything. Besides, I don't think we have any administrators aboard. We did have one Ford Warranty person join but like many members that log in regularly we will never see a post from them. I do think that there needs to be more discussion about writing warranty repair orders where technicians are concerned. In my own dealership I see some pretty lame write ups that I cant see passing scrutiny. Whether it be here, the ford website or maybe even a new web-based course I really think this needs to be discussed and taught. Think about it. As for what some of you guys up in Canada are experiencing it sounds like there are some warranty managers that have their heads up their asses. If you guys are providing the documentation you say you are I don't see the problem. Honestly. We went through a period that it seemed like claims were being bounced just for the hell of it, like they had a game board spinner that told them to pay the claim or deny it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 Not what I'm saying...If we are getting good response for claims, maybe the process could be listed to assist others here and not make it such a headache for most. A learning tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I don't think the process is the same for everyone. If you get a dickhead warranty Nazi with a bleeding orifice during that time of the month, it almost seems that it doesn't matter what you write, they're gonna shit on you anyway. Not only that, but I think that this R.O. kick back procedure is a mandatory situation right now with Ford to try and stop the company in every single way fro bleeding to death. They are using the Jack The Knife (Jack Nasser) procedure. All we do is re appeal at least once or twice or even three times and they always pay. But they consume so much of our flat rate time that it is getting ridiculous. I think that the Dealer bodies or the D.P's need to stand together and tell Ford to get their shit together and have a standard process of inputs and outputs. But I can't see that happening. It has always been a backstabbing industry. Stick it to the competition, right. If only this industry could stand together and get along like Doctors or dentists. Anywho, more drinks for now to make the day go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 I think it was the movie "Erin Brockovich" ??? Where the insurance company was instructed to deny all claims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 That's a good comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 One thing to remember... Canada makes up for about 10% of Fords worldwide sales... 10%.. a drop in the bucket... In the grand scheme of things, Ford doesn't give a moose turd about us.... Of special note.... Ford has decided that their warranty costs are too high... rather than build a better product, it seems to be easier to reduce warranty costs by not paying for warranty... I have this foreboding that it will get worse before it get's better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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