New FSA warning on customer oil changes

[OHNO60]

Hey did you guys see the new FSA letter going out about the 200 hour oil change?

[Aaron]

No, but 200 hours is 6800mi or roughly 11000km according to Ford's 55km / 34.18mi

 

Service advisor got all pissy at me the other day when I warned her one of our fleet's trucks had 2100HRS on it, and warranty is over at 2909HRS, with only 70,000km on it.

 

She got all pissy. "Well it's not my job to tell them that"

 

Well, it'll be your job to tell them that the fucking repair ain't warranty, if and when that happens!

 

Sorry about the tirade...rant mode off.

 

She has about ONE more dig at me for ANYTHING and I'll go absolutely fuckin bananas. Shlep knows who I'm talking about.

[jaysonfordtech]

That is the adviser's job to advise. The good news and the bad. Where did you find the spec for warranty coverage at 2909 hours?

I personally kind of enjoy giving that kind of news. Maybe its all the years of being a tech seeing the customers try to slide anything that they could under warranty.

[Jim Warman]

I have spent too much time looking for anything about 09L04... I am sure it will impact us deeply at our store...

 

First... you know this is a "literature" only CSP... I haven't seen the propaganda, but I ge the feeling (like 09L03) that Ford is giving us the opportunity to piss people off....

 

Yes... we will get paid .2 or whatever so that we can explain to people that "what they thought" ISN'T... and "what they expected" AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN....

 

Taking a good hard stare at 09L03 should lay the groundwork for what is going to happen with 09L04 (even though I still haven't read the "meat and taters" part....).

 

Ford is using psychology to shift the blame.... pay attention, guys.... this may become important later.... to shift the blame away from Ford and back to the dealer....

 

For 09L03, we are talking valve stems.... if the guy is past his BtoB, we might change the valve stems for free just to get him to shut the fuck up.... but that wont happen before we piss him off....

[Aaron]

Where did you find the spec for warranty coverage at 2909 hours?

Called warranty hotline and asked. Was advised 1hr is 55km, so divide 160,000km by 55 = 2909.09090909.....

 

This is what they told me to do to figure it out.

[jaysonfordtech]

So if I remember correctly that spec is for the towing/idling table correct? The "normal" schedule did not have an hour indication if I remember correctly. Oh boy I feel a shit storm a coming. lol.

[Keith Browning]

I am waiting for Ford to put a box for engine hours on all of their forms.

[eastendpowerstroke]

I am waiting for Ford to put a box for engine hours on all of their forms.

 

Well that won't happen before we all get a bunch of claims kicked back.

 

I know we discussed this before but every time you open a session with IDS the wireless connection goes crazy,what do you suppose it's doing?? Ya think it's just saying HI?? Ever notice the extra info that pops up when you use the "quick start".

You DON'T have the right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you.....

[OHNO60]

Sounds like there loading their warranty guns for the "New Diesel". Basically flexing their muscles and stating their not accepting any B.S!

[G. Bedford]

The topic on engine hours came up on the warranty admin. area of the Ford message boards awhile back. The consensus was the hours are for maintenance scheduling only. It does not change the fact the warranty coverage is 100,000 miles by the odometer. I wish Ford would come out and positively state this, because it causes confusion.

[Jim Warman]

Sounds like there loading their warranty guns for the "New Diesel". Basically flexing their muscles and stating their not accepting any B.S!

I think that this is a very good observation...

 

Something I was musing aloud about last week... has anyone noticed the "interactive PC/ED"? How long before you can't go on to the next step because you aren't "connected"? How long is it before we become drones... connecting test leads or running some subset at the behest of "the machine" - allowing "the machine" to decide our every move...

 

Sound like something out of science fiction? Back when I was a kid, Dick Tracy had a two way wrist radio.... now I carry a still camera, movie camera, diary, entertainment centre, game console, calendar, calculator - I can keep going if you like - in my friggin' pocket... Oh, I can phone people on it,too.

 

When I was 6, my Dad came home with a wood box with one glass side.... I said "What's that". He said "A television". I said "Neat..... what's a television?". The day my Dad brought that TV home, the world I live in today WAS science fiction.

[Aaron]

It's in the Warranty and Policy manual:

 

Quote:

Stationary Power Source- Calculating Warranty Limits

Article 11-C

During warranty reviews it has been discovered that when a vehicle is being used as a stationary power source no consideration is being given to the amount of time the vehicle spends operating in this mode. As per warranty & policy 3B-33 one hour of use as a stationary power source equals 55km for the purpose of calculating warranty coverage

limits. Since most of our vehicles do not have factory-installed hour meters it may make determining this factor more difficult however, this point should still be reviewed.

[DwayneGorniak]

It's in the Warranty and Policy manual:

 

Quote:

Stationary Power Source- Calculating Warranty Limits

Article 11-C

During warranty reviews it has been discovered that when a vehicle is being used as a stationary power source no consideration is being given to the amount of time the vehicle spends operating in this mode. As per warranty & policy 3B-33 one hour of use as a stationary power source equals 55km for the purpose of calculating warranty coverage

limits. Since most of our vehicles do not have factory-installed hour meters it may make determining this factor more difficult however, this point should still be reviewed.

Thanks for posting that Aaron. That article has been in the warranty policy manual for many years. As long as I've been in Alberta anyway. That's almost nine years. It was worded slightly different up untill about a couple to a few months ago.

[G. Bedford]

Can you guys give me a little direction to that in the W&P manual, by section and page? I looked on the 2009 Ford on-line manual and couldn't come up with it. I'm hoping it isn't a Canada only version you guys see. Thanks.

[Aaron]

Warranty Administration tab

 

Warranty Action Notices tab

 

Archives tab

 

Admin/Other Notices tab

 

Article 11-C, Page 18/27

 

I don't know if this will work for you, or not, but try this: https://www.inford.dealerconnection.com/parts_service/showfile.asp?id=3579

 

Hope this helps.

[G. Bedford]

Went right to it with the link you provided. Gonna show it to my WA and SM. Thanks for putting in the extra effort for me, Aaron.

[GregKneupper]

With the ids now every time that you hook up to a car on a computer with internet connection and run codes it automatically communicates that info through their website. If you run oasis after you have done that you will notice a vcm icon next to the vin even though you did not use quick start. The info is already there. You all may have noticed that when you retrieve codes there is now a pause before it displays the codes on the screen. That is the ids sending the info to the pts site.

[Tony302600]

Ok, so i have a firefighter buddy, whose station has a 6.4 ambulance...... they must change their oil at least every 200 hours to keep the warranty valid?

[jaysonfordtech]

Yes, ambulance vehicles must be serviced every 5k or 200 hours

[Jim Warman]

Well, I finally got a chance to see the customer letter for this "recall".... And the confusion is going to hit the fan...

 

Our area features dust, idling, more dust, more idling, extreme cold, more dust and idling, heat (if you can call 85 F heat - for me it is)... By idling, I am including low rpm, light load operation. For us, it was expedient to carry the 5000 km service interval over to the 6.0, at least for work trucks... Increasing the service interval increased the instance or opportunity for oil based concerns...

 

A natural progression was to label 6.4s for a 5000 km oil change as well... Customers are used to it and the truck seems to like it...

 

Down the street is a recently opened Lubexx that is pasting 10,000 km intervals on windshields... I'm not sure what our local Cambodian Tire is telling people...

 

If you look at the scheduled maintenance guide in the cubbyhole of a 6.4 truck, you will notice that (at 5000 MILES), you are 'supposed' to go to the dealer and have your tires rotated, your filter minder checked and a multi-point inspection.... At 10,000 MILES, you are supposed to get your tires rotated, filter minder checked, multi-point inspection AND get an oil change....

 

No wonder the 6.4 is getting a name for "making oil".

 

FWIW, on any trucks that we regularly see, the hour meter indicates that a 5000 km interval isn't usually "too often".... It is rare for a man to drive deep into the "jungle" and feel the need to shut his truck off.

[joshbuys]

Originally Posted By: jaysonfordtech

Where did you find the spec for warranty coverage at 2909 hours?

Called warranty hotline and asked. Was advised 1hr is 55km, so divide 160,000km by 55 = 2909.09090909.....

 

This is what they told me to do to figure it out.

Actually had hotline tell me last month that their 'new' spec for engine hours is 25 miles per hour. Why do they keep changing their specs?!?! Just more cause for greater confusion!!!!

[Aaron]

Yowza...that makes it 4000 hours.

[DwayneGorniak]

The Warranty Policy Manual is what is written in stone for these specs. I wouldn't listen to Hotline about these specs if they are giving you different numbers than what the WPM states.

[LARRY BRUDZYNSKI]

+1 If they try to throw it back at you or the customers, you have it in print but.... If FORD changes the required maint. schedule then FORD should be sending out this change to all of the customers, not just changing it and giving them a out to kill or refuse warranty. FORD would never win that battle in court, but would take a while to get there, ie: class action lawsuit, it could take years by then Ford would pay but not as much as covering all of the customers now, some would slip thru the cracks and not make a claim. Thus FORD would get out cheaper an probably blame IH.

[joshbuys]

HOW TO CALCULATE EXTENDED IDLE CONDITIONS

Engine Hours vs. Vehicle Mileage Formula (Helpful to determine if "Extended Idle" condition exists)

Record the engine hours from the vehicle and multiply the number by 25 (1 hour of engine running time is equal to approximately 25 miles).

 

If the number is less than the miles on the odometer, the vehicle is driven more than it idles - use vehicle mileage to determine maintenance interval

If the number is greater than the mileage on the odometer, the vehicle idles more than it is driven - use engine hours of operation to determine maintenance interval)

Per the Scheduled Maintenance in the Diesel Supplement, a vehicle being used in severe service special operating conditions must have the oil and filter changed every 5,000 miles or 200 engine hours. The fuel filters need to be changed every 10,000 miles or 400 engine hours.

 

Example: A vehicle with 15,400 miles on the odometer had 1220 engine hours (equal to 30,500 miles). The vehicle had only two oil/filter changes performed, however based on engine hours of operation, the vehicle should have had six oil/filter changes.

 

This formula applies to fuel filters replacement. Engine hours are critical when considering the life of fuel filters which require replacement every other oil change.

 

This same engine hours vs. vehicle mileage formula also applies to engine coolant when operated in severe service special operating conditions. Check the Nitrite level of the coolant using Rotunda 3-Way Antifreeze Test Strip Kit # 328-00001, and add the Motorcraft additive or replace coolant as necessary.

 

As of March 2009 - Revision to waranty policy manual.