mchan68 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 As of June 8th, 2009 it looks like us Canadians will be required to obtain prior approval for 6.0L repairs just like those of you south of the border. HOOOOOOOORAAAAYYYYYYY!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Even for a fucking EGR cooler. Prior approval must be obtained before removing heads. So I get approval to pull heads, and then once it get it apart, it needs heads, so I get to get prior approval again? Fuck me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Notice the last sentence of the first paragraph: COMPANY MANDATE OF CONTROLLING UNNECESSARY WARRANTY EXPENSE. So much for fixed right first time. We all know that you can pull an EGR cooler and bench test it and the fucker won't leak cold. But put back in the truck and they will leak like a MOFO. I can see allot of comebacks happening all over Canada and Ford really fuckin us saying it is a repeat repair. My ass is puckering already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktmlew Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Links don't work for me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Links don't work for me? No, and they won't due to a software glitch I discovered a while back. There is an update that I better install soon. You guys can cut and paste the notices into quotes though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I'll give you all a good example of where the mentality of this type of warranty scrutiny is complete bullshit. Not that any of you already don't know this. I'm performing a head gasket repair right now as per TSB 09-8-3. I have a fucking geyser of coolant coming out of the degas bottle. I never miss any steps in this TSB when I am diagnosing, However, I have refined my diagnostics procedures like many of you most likely have. I mean fuck, most of us are flat rate and even if we aren't we don't like to fuck around and waste time on useless fucking procedures. Not until step 7 does the TSB tell us to install the pressure guage on the cooling system when we are diagnosing for head gasket concerns. So I get this truck cold. Rad cap is fucked and only holds 8 psi. Replace cap. Step 3-test egr cooler on vehicle. Rad kit plus does not leak down. So step 5. Rather that wait until step 7, I leave my pressure guage hooked up on the cooling system and grab my IDS and set up my pids. Engine is cold. Get two blocks from the dealership and the pressure guage is blowing off and the rad cap sounds like a tea kettle. This is where I think they need to refine the TSB. I agree that if EOT exceeds ECT, you need to address the Engine oil cooler issue. However, there is no step in the procedure that addresses excessive cooling system pressures with low engine coolant temperature. You know you have a major issue when this type of scenario is occurring. So I finish the road test and verify that EOT exceeds ECT by 26F. So we are to service the Fucking oil cooler like we should and then retest. Retest verifies, I still have a fucking geyser. Remove heads, gaskets are fucked and heads are absolutely screwed. Test the EGR cooler in water and the fucking thing doesn't leak. So I am in the middle of replacing th heads right now and because the EGR cooler doesn't leak, I am putting it back on the truck. But I just know this fucker is gonna bite me big time within a month to six months and cost more fucking money than fixing it right fucking now would. I have had this happen before. And now with this new warranty scrutiny bullshit, they will look at it as a repeat repair and we're gonna get fucked real hard. Thank god I have a boss who is willing to fight for us. But at the same time, we will look bad to Ford and the fuckin customer. But our fuckin hands are tied. No wonder we drink so fuckin much. Maybe I wouldn't if I didn't fucking care about my workmanship pride. But I fuckin do care dammit! We all know what the right thing to do would be if this were a retail job. Fix the fuckin thing and save our customers from an "UNNECESSARY" huge fucking future expence or should I say "Repeat Repair? Alright rant is over for today anyway. We'll see what happens tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Fuck that Dwayne - put an EGR cooler on it - that bulletin only applies after June 8th! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Fuck that Dwayne - put an EGR cooler on it - that bulletin only applies after June 8th!Off the record, I always do BOTH coolers. My way of looking at it, is a warranty claim detail history looks far cleaner with ONE major repair, as opposed to multiple major repairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The major problem here though is that they have been asking for the EGR coolers back lately. You're fucked if you do and you're fucked if you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 A tech I work with was on the TRP. They saw the jig that each returned EGR cooler is clamped onto and pressure checked. It had better leak or it WILL be charged back. It was pretty much an assembly line as each was tested and tossed in a bin. Also, mark each returned EGR cooler with the RO# and prior approval # with a marker and 700 tag it. Since so many coolers are getting tested, it is possible to have them charge you back for someone elses cooler. Cover yourself to keep your losses at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Also, mark each returned EGR cooler with the RO# and prior approval # with a marker and 700 tag it. Since so many coolers are getting tested, it is possible to have them charge you back for someone elses cooler. Cover yourself to keep your losses at a minimum. Good point and great advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Feed the fucker the gas axe for a few minutes before you send it back, it'll leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Great advise, I will engrave the R.O #'s into them from now on especially after I feed the Gas to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006 Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Feed the fucker the gas axe for a few minutes before you send it back, it'll leak. Never thought of that. A little bit of heat from a clean burning propane torch and melt a small piece of solder. I know its warranty fraud, but the way I look at it, I'm saving Ford money by replacing it now, rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 They should just ask for some freakin bailout money already and take the fuckin money and turn this ridiculous TSb into a fuckin recall. But I think that would almost break the government's piggy bank. And back on topic: What are everyone's thought's on how they deal with these kind of situations for the prior approval? Do we phone in and ask to replace the coolers and then after that doesn't fuckin fix it, phone in again for head removal, and then phone in for head replacement? And then imagine the fuckin gong show when we find fucked pistons and cylinder walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 And back on topic: What are everyone's thought's on how they deal with these kind of situations for the prior approval? Do we phone in and ask to replace the coolers and then after that doesn't fuckin fix it, phone in again for head removal, and then phone in for head replacement? And then imagine the fuckin gong show when we find fucked pistons and cylinder walls. With all due respect, and I do respect you, I feel you are taking this a little too hard. If you know how to diagnose these engines and you follow the TSB you are not going to fuck up. Once you have your test data and the EGR cooler is off the engine and bench tested you know where you stand. I think I have only had one engine that needed both head gaskets and the coolers and have yet to see a comeback as a result. (that I know of) The TSB and the prior approval process is to ensure that we are not over repairing or performing unnecessary repairs. Like it or not, Ford has a legitimate concern and a legitimate right to control the repair process since they are paying for the repairs. Since I have been dealing with this prior approval process mush longer than you I can tell you that yes, it is a pain in the ass and you will find yourself spending time documenting your test results and filling out the prior approval form. There are days when I have multiple vehicles in the shop that require prior approvals that I feel like all I had done that day was fill out forms and push paper - ask Dupont - he has witnessed my frustration many times. I was not able to read the notice you guys were handed but there are two different prior approval processes. One is the Hot-Line process where you must run OASIS and then fill out an on line form. Then there is the Real Time Diagnostic Assistance program where you have a paper form and you have to call in your repair and discuss it with a guy on the phone who traces your steps. I don't have the op code with me here but do remember to add to your write ups "Filled out and submitted prior approval forms" and document your approval codes. Make sure your warranty clerk gets you the .3 hr for the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwayneGorniak Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Keith, I know we have discussed this topic before. And I often wonder how you guys down south don't see the failures we that we see out here. But I also wonder sometimes if the boys out in Eastern Canada see the failures that we do out here in patch as well. In fact, it is extremely abnormal out here to only see one cooler fail on these things. Which also makes me believe that the we see a huge failure rate out here in the oil patch. See, we see triple failures on these trucks all the time. It is extremely common to see ECT/EOT correlation differences of anywhere from 40 to 70 degrees Fahrenheit difference. Now being that I see this much of a pain in the ass failures on these trucks makes it seem like we deal with some major crap out here compared to elsewhere. And with that being said, because of the type of huge headaches we deal with out here makes me know that we are going to have huge headaches with the prior approval process. Hell, I already spend hours in a day doing paperwork. And don't worry, I'll get over it. But I know it's gonna be a major Pain in the ole' ars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 You get used to it but it will remain annoying I assure you. If you know what you are doing you will be fine. I am currently watching a coworker having a difficult time. I wont say any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 That is an excellent idea, about marking the cooler. I might get the shop to invest in an engraver. edit for sp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I know just as well as anyone else that things are tough.... Ford is doing some wierd shit.... And we are bound and determined to prove that Ford is right... We ARE a bunch of thieving motherfuckers that will resort to fraud to make a point.... Somewhere - somehow - someone is going to have to show me how two wrongs will make something right.... Sounds like integrity and honesty is about to take a vacation... Some of you Einsteins are going wind up having Ford right where Ford wants you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Dwayne... one of the many things I've been prattling on about for several years is demographics.... Walk out your back door... you will see different things than others... climate being one of the over-riding factors.... Picture this.... airborne pollutants and contaminants.... temperatures (temperatures that differ enough to affect chemical and photometric reactions).... who sees salt or calcium chloride on the roads in the winter and who doesn't... Ask somebody in the southern states what "cold" is.... I'm happy because my loving bride isn't saying "roll up that pneumonia hole" and some guy in Arizona is bitching because his AC isn't efficient... Where we live and what we see on a daily basis has a profound effect on what we see as failures and as what we see as pattern failures - specifically in regards to where in the trucks time line we are.... You and I are dealing with temps around 70F... I am having some difficulty with this kind of heat - but I always have (I'm from the north of Owd Blighty). Daytona Speed weeks see temps in the 70s or better and the stands are full of Floridians wearing fucking parkas!!!!! Yes.... mechanical failures are dependanton climatology, demography, local financial considerations - Gawd knows what else. Picture this.... In Edmonton, some commuters spend almost 45 minutes fighting rush hour traffic each and every day (each way). We have a partsman that spends almost that much time on his commute to work.... but he is going 110 KpH for most of his trip.... All we need is to open our eyes..... and we will see..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Originally Posted By: Aaron Fuck that Dwayne - put an EGR cooler on it - that bulletin only applies after June 8th! Off the record, I always do BOTH coolers. My way of looking at it, is a warranty claim detail history looks far cleaner with ONE major repair, as opposed to multiple major repairs. I do this almost always as well. most of the time if we have a venter it has a blown egr cooler from the result of a junk headgasket. I can typically find a customer pay cooler laying around somewhere to go back in the warranty bin...wait did i say that out loud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 The thing that still sucks though, is say you have a definite head gasket failure. You get P.A. to pull it. You pull the head off, measure it, and it's fucked. Now you have to call P.A. again, to get ANOTHER approval code to replace the head? Do I get to claim the Prior Approval opcode twice? Thrice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 we do it all through pts, no phone calls. you can update your request typically to add additional parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Call, e-mail, whatever...we do ours by email also. But do you get your time covered for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.