Keith Browning Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 How about this little change fellas? Is this the fix for all fixes on these trucks? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shrug.gif Quote: From Recall 06E17The calibration used to update this population of 6.0L diesel vehicles contains a revised strategy that will deactivate the EP sensor and replace its function with inputs from other sensors. Exhaust pressure is now inferred, and even though the EP sensor remains in place, it is not used as an input. Therefore, for vehicles covered by this recall, it is not necessary to replace the EP sensor. Broadcast Message 5396 2003-2004 F-Super Duty/Excursion 6.0L built before 9/29/2003 - exhaust pressure sensor input no longer used if pcm is reprogrammed - service tip if the PCM on a 2003-2004 F-Super Duty or Excursion 6.0L built before 9/29/03 is reprogrammed with wds release B41.8 and higher or B42.1 and higher, the new calibration contains a revised strategy that no longer uses the EBP sensor. Exhaust pressure is now inferred, and even though the EBP sensor remains in place, it is not used as an input and no longer can be viewed in data logger. There are updated diagnostics in PC/ED manual section 5 for vehicles reprogrammed with this level calibration. These diagnostics include two new dtc's, p006a (mass or volume air flow correlation) and p132b (turbocharger/ supercharger boost control a performance), as well as the deletion of dtc's p0470 through p0478. also included in this calibration are diagnostic improvements for p0231, p2287, and p0460. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I would imagine, that any warranty claims on the 9J460s will be kicked back now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 22, 2006 Author Share Posted February 22, 2006 I would think that despite the EP sensor is no longer used as an input it is still used by some of the OBD monitors and also for self tests. Running an KOER self test it would probably be needed to check the VGT, no? There is mention of new DTC's and diagnostics so using the on-line version of the PCED is probably going to be a must. Or at the very least wise! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6.0n7.3strokers Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Actually the EBP pid is no longer in the WDS menu after the reprogram. I reprogrammed a truck the other day. Afterwards I went on a test drive to see how it actually performed with the new program. I could not find the EBP pid, and I noticed that the boost was down around 18-20 psi, but it ran really good, and had lots of power. Guess only time will tell how they will run with the new program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 25, 2006 Author Share Posted February 25, 2006 Yeah, the broadcast message above stated the EBP PID would no longer be available. I have always thought that for some reason that the 2003 trucks just seem stronger than most. This I determined with my seat of the pants o-meter. Anybody else think that. It's amazing just how differently a lot of these trucks run with the various calibrations and states of condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordMastertech Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I definitely think the 03s have the most amount of power but don't try to convince anyone that owns a newer one. In our shop the 03s seem to be the less problematic ones too. The 05s have been a nightmare especially in the fleet vans. I am not complaining, I am happy to be busy. FMT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I did a PCM reflash(05E15) on a 2005 today and the EBP pid was still there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Bedford Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 What bothers me is, there is still VRef supplied to the EBP sensor even though the PID is deactivated. Electrical shorts to the EBP sensor within the harness or the sensor itself can still cause problems. But we no longer have the PID's to help us in diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I havent had a chance to verify this, but I was just informed today that the EBPG pid is available but the EBP(PSI) we are used to isnt.. The EBPG pid is gauge pressure(like MGP) so if it is still there, you should be able to add your BARO to the EBPG and get the EBP reading your familliar with.. What still buggs me is that the EBPV was the most informative pid on these trucks for air management issues.. Maybe we can use the new ICP test pigtail to monitor voltage with a DVOM????Just a thought.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 gasgasman.... remembering that the later 05s have no MAF (something I feel is going to be used in computing the assumed EBP), I don't think we'll see many of the 05s ever getting this sort of strategy.... I've been wrong before... FWIW, the FSA does state that only 03s will be targetted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Yeah, the EBP is now inferred by the MAF sensor which brings me to this little note from the HotLine today. If there are any modifications like an air intake or a monster exhaust this recall will cause major problems. Makes sense but I wonder why they decided to do this. I can see the problems coming from this are going to make matters worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snw blue by you Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Yeah, the EBP is now inferred by the MAF sensor which brings me to this little note from the HotLine today. If there are any modifications like an air intake or a monster exhaust this recall will cause major problems. Makes sense but I wonder why they decided to do this. I can see the problems coming from this are going to make matters worse. And oh yeah, nobody mods these trucks!Sounds like the stratedgy used on the Mustang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I commented on the stupidity of this while on the Hotline too. The engineer agreed... did you know this little move will save Ford about $5 Million in EBP sensors? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/puke.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 The Chevy Duramax uses this same turbo. You know that plug on top near the oil line? It's for a rack position sensor. What a perfect way of determining if the unison ring is doing what it is supposed to.... *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torqued_Up Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 That's something that would have proven worth the cost of production. Hey Bruce? Is the VT 365 having the same driveability problems the 6-Oh is? I'll bet International is not flashing every truck over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffEzack Posted March 6, 2006 Share Posted March 6, 2006 I have not performed the recall yet, but I noticed in the tech instructions that the FICM relay is pulled for only 2003 models, are you guys doing this, or are you able to perform the recalibration without having to pull the FICM relay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 That's something that would have proven worth the cost of production. Hey Bruce? Is the VT 365 having the same driveability problems the 6-Oh is? I'll bet International is not flashing every truck over and over. Sorry for the late reply- Been really busy. No, IH is not having anywhere near the problems with the VT-365 that the 6.0PSD is having. I feel this has a lot to do with several things- first of all, there are 20 times more 6.0's on the roads than VT's. Second, the VT is only available in a couple of chassis, which are much more likely to be driven as a truck is supposed to be driven- with a load and for a longer time, not stopping at the store for milk and other short runs. They are having some air management problems and have come out with a letter to disassemble the turbo and clean the carbon out of it, along with a new EBP and EGR. HP oil leaks are rare, which is probably a programming thing- Ford must have the ICP turned up to get more HP out of the motor. Looking at ICP on the two doesn't really show much difference, but in fairness I have not compared WOT recordings side-by-side. The higher torque/lower redline is surely easier on the HP oil (and other) system, too. IH has released some calibration updates, but not on the level of the 6.0. I think it's pretty clear that Ford is still struggling with the programming end of it by their recent changes. It's too bad they didn't put the VGT position sensor in the turbo that Garrett offers- that would have solved a lot of diagnostic dilemmas by giving us a definitive code for a stuck turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGLR13MWZ Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Does this calabration prevent the truck from being programmed (chipped, etc.) Some techs are stating that they ussually can pull the chip reprogram then reinsert it and go. Not any more.....any imput? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 I have not performed the recall yet, but I noticed in the tech instructions that the FICM relay is pulled for only 2003 models, are you guys doing this, or are you able to perform the recalibration without having to pull the FICM relay? I really shouldn't admit this but I do not pull the FICM relay due to the fact that I have never had a problem reprogramming - so why bother? From what I understand the reason for doing so is that the FICM can create electrical noise and cause interference which can cause problems with the reflash. Quote: Originally posted by WGLR13MWZ: Does this calibration prevent the truck from being programmed (chipped, etc.) Some techs are stating that they usually can pull the chip reprogram then reinsert it and go. Not any more.....any input? I have not heard anything of that nature from any of my customers. Then again, a guy running modifications is less likely to run out to the dealer and have his PCM reflashed with a calibration he is not going to be running anyway. I am sure that "they" could eventually build a processor that could do that but I doubt it. I did hear that the new processors coming will be able to detect tampering and retain the proof. That alone will stop a lot of pissing contests and B.S.-ing crybabies. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crybaby2.gif Personally, I really don't mind guys that mod their trucks and have fun with them. I DO mind being lied to when something breaks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 From what I see and hear in the shop, the instruction to remove the FICM relay is pretty much universal when using the WDS - shows up on the sme screen as fuel pump fuse, etc...Some of the guys have missed that part or have forgotten about it - my own view is that it can't hurt, only takes a few seconds once you get used to the locations and removes one opportunity of having to do it all over again... So far, all of the 06E17s I have done have been like the proverbial watched pot... I can stare at the screen and VGTVP_LE wont budge and VGT_CNC always says no (this, apparently, is the PID that is supposed to tell us if conditions are right for the VGT learn)... Walk way for a few minutes and it's like magic - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgasman Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I really don't mind guys that mod their trucks and have fun with them. I DO mind being lied to when something breaks! The customer that "is" honest has to shell out thousands for repairs. The guy that lies gets off scot free.Seen happen many times.Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaysonfordtech Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Keith, from what I have heard on the fmc rumor board the reason they want the ficm relay pulled is that it holds #1 injector driver on and can burn that driver out. I have not had any problems myself but found that it is easy to pull so I started doing it. As for the chip and reflash, I have not run into one yet but I have a friend at a nearby dealer who does all the time. He is trying to get them to charge a little to disconnect the chip to reflash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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