Fordtechnician Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Help. I have a 2005 F350 with a 6.0 and 6spd manual trans I have been working on for months. It has a very bad buck on a hard pull. If you take this truck to a mountain and try to climb it this is when it will start its fit. You can be climbing tih mountain in say 3rd gear and be tached up to 2800 to 3000 rpm or more under 100% load & AP position. If you shift to 4th gear naturally the rpms are going to drop as it falls into the next gear. When the rpms drop down to say 1200 at full load full AP it is pulling perfect. As the RPMs start climbing and you hit near the 1800 rpm mark it starts bucking that bad you need to back off the throttle or shift back down. Anything to change the load or AP or rpm. So far we have checked fuel psi, good. Ran truck with the following unplugged (one at a time). ICP, EGR, EBP, 4 injectors on a side at a time. I replaced the oil check valves in both heads. We have reflashed the pcm with the new Feb. TSB. After all this and the #?? repair visit the FSE has determined it to be normal. You have got to be kidding me! The owner said he will NOT accept this. He will go get a Chevy next. I don't really want to tackle any more repair attempts because I am already above the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/readthis.gif (lemon law)max of three repair attempts. Is this normal? International are you listening? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 OK, First off have you called the hotline? Please dont slam them and say its a waste of time..I know how some guys feel about them, but you cant deny the resources they have, some of those guys are really good, you just need to rememebr what kind of "techs" they talk to sometimes, we've all tried to help a freind or family member over the phone, its not that easy... I just worked on the same exact issue 2weeks ago, except it was an '04, you didnt say how heavy the truck is, but mine was a 17,500 lb loaded dump truck.. Anyhow, do you hear a "whining" noise from the turbo area? That was the giveaway on mine.. Added to the erratic ICP when the severe buck was present, though with the ICP disconnected it made it a bit better.. Mine ended up being the HP pump.. Although it is a different pump, I would recomend taking a picture of the event paying attention specificly to the ICPV, IPR, EBPDC, EGRDC, EGRVP, RPM, Load, and APP then see if you see any activity on any of them durring the event(remember some of it will be a reaction), make sure you manipulate the recording to scale and zoom to make things easier to see, you could send it to Hotline for help too.. Then look at the IPR very closly for debris. You dont mention changing anything but the Ck valves, but I think the pump is what your after.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't there a re-cal issued last month for this on the 2005's? I have two customers with this concern which they only experience while towing making it difficult to diagnose them. To make matters worse, I cant verify the complaint on either truck! Both of these trucks have auto transmissions, one is an '04 and the other is an '05. Coincidentally the owner of the '04 is bringing his truck in today... I am not going to work today to take care of some personal business so he won't be happy. He was last in a month ago when we put the VDR in the truck but the recordings showed nothing. As a bad twist of fate, the day we took the VDR out, the truck lost power and the MIL came on. With a little luck the code and data will still be in the PCM. I'll check back with you fellas after I get to look at it tomorrow. (if it's still there) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordtechnician Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 Hotline was called many times. They also were sent wds recordings. Fse also took recordings and sent them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Hotline was called many times. They also were sent wds recordings. Fse also took recordings and sent them as well. No help? Do you happen to have a report #? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 BTW, yes there were a couple re-cal's released last month and the previous.. They may help, but honestly this sounds more sever to me..Would definitly be worth looking into though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 To me, based on descriptions, this sounds like the engine is suddenly defueling like you took your for off the pedal abruptly. It is very hard to catch it. Even more intriguing is that it can be stopped by shutting off the engine and restarting. I am anxious to see what you guys have to report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordtechnician Posted March 1, 2006 Author Share Posted March 1, 2006 I should also add........I rode this bucking situation out more then once just to see if it would cure itself. Beyond getting whiplash for the 150 to 300 rpms it needs to increase, once it got higher it went away like magic. I am going to try to draw a picture of what this looks like. RPMs 1000--1100--1200--1300--1400--1500--1600--1700 ______________________________________________ 1750--1800--1850--1900--1950--2000--2100--2200 ______^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^__________________________ Picture key ^^^^^^means buck ______means running normal. Like I said before, you must be at nearly 100% load, 100% ap, and in the ^^^^^^rpm area to duplicate the problem. I personally don't feel you are lugging the engine at the above rpms. Also shutting this truck off and restarting it will not change the problem. I would post my contact #'s but are you a Ford cop? In addition toi being the diesel tech, I am also the Service manager. I do know I am NOT allowed to try any other repair attempts to this. Doing so will admit there is a problem after the FSE from Ford has determined there is not. I know there is a problem, the owner of the truck does, and all of the diesel techs that can decipher my post know it. If the owner chooses to go thru the dispute settlement board and I keep attempting repairs he would surely win. However, he told me he will not. I have till Wed next week to find a solution or there WILL be a chevy in his lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Quote: I would post my contact #'s but are you a Ford cop? In addition toi being the diesel tech, I am also the Service manager. I do know I am NOT allowed to try any other repair attempts to this. Doing so will admit there is a problem after the FSE from Ford has determined there is not. I know there is a problem, the owner of the truck does, and all of the diesel techs that can decipher my post know it. If the owner chooses to go thru the dispute settlement board and I keep attempting repairs he would surely win. However, he told me he will not. I have till Wed next week to find a solution or there WILL be a chevy in his lot! [/QB] Well, first... No I'm not a cop.. I didnt realize that it was that far allong though..Sounds like your done, you'd be better not to do any more to it(as far as Ford is concerned).. Unfortunalty,like you said, if you do anything, it could jeopridize the case when it goes DSB.. On the other hand,if it cant be fixed.... Sorry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Quote: Sounds like your done, you'd be better not to do any more to it(as far as Ford is concerned).. Unfortunately,like you said, if you do anything, it could jeopardize the case when it goes DSB.. It never dawned on me before but once the customer gets Ford involved you really have to watch what you are doing even if it means your hands get tied. I had an Econoline with a 6.0L that was towed in a THIRD time with no ICP and I was only allowed to verify the ICP PID and oil level. It was hauled away and the customer has a new van... with a 5.4L in it. I know it wasn't my fault but I felt like that van beat me as my hands were definitely tied. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rotz.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGM Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 It does suck... We want to fix them not buy them, but by trying, we're admitting there is a problem.. When someone has made the determination there is nothing wrong, the worst thing you can do is contradict them(whether you believe it or not)... We still represent Ford, and must side with them over the customer(Ford is your best customer/they wont go anywhere else for service)..Just part of the bussiness.Dont want to make "dad" mad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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