Brad Clayton Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I have been on a tear about checking hour meters on Super Dutys the past couple of days. Some interesting results have followed. Most of the trucks I have checked are almost triple the mileage on the odometer. Of course that depends on which number you use. Which leads me to ask the question that has already been asked but changes with the wind direction....are we using 33 or 25 for the conversion number at this time? No matter what the number is, we are seeing alot of trucks that are way out on there maintenance needs. This being because they are only looking at the odometer. Lastly, will Ford take into consideration high hours versus low mileage in warranty decisions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 In our warranty and policy manual (Canada), it indicates that 1 hour is equal to 55 kilometers. Up North they asked hours on every warranty repair, and I have been making note of them on most of the vehicles I work on, merely from the fact that if it comes down to it, my ass is not on the line because the mileage and the hours is clearly stated on the workorder. Got in a pissing match with a service advisor regarding this. She tells me "IT'S NOT MY JOB" (my favorite line, EVER) "to tell the customer that the warranty is based on hours." Service Advisor. Service ADVISOR. SERVICE FUCKING ADVISOR. YOUR JOB IS TO ADVISE THE CUSTOMER OF HIS VEHICLE'S WARRANTY, OR ANY OTHER CONCERNS PRESENT WITH THE VEHICLE. Truck had 8000km's on it, and if I recall rightly somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 hours on it. I recommended fuel filters and an oil change, which the advisor refused to sell. I've been told fuel filters are recommended at 200 hours. At the mine, 6.4 trucks got a PM (oil and fuel filters) every 200 hours. 6.0 trucks, every 300 hours, if I remember rightly. I service my truck based on hours or mileage, whichever comes first. That's just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I service my truck based on hours or mileage, whichever comes first. And so does IH. I wonder when Ford will wise up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 If Ford doesnt reccomend servicing based on hours, then how can they administrate warranty based on hours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Actually they do recommend servicing by hours... the Hot-Line does anyway and usually it's on commercial vehicles that are prone to idling... like busses & abmulances. I think the big reason you don't see Ford pushing this is because most of the Ford trucks on the road do not have engine hour meters from the factory. Only F-Super Duty's do and then it's only 2005 model year and newer. Any other trucks with hour meters were upgraded with aftermarket parts. My company has a large fleet division and I used to see a lot of meters installed in municipal applications but in recent years that has stopped due to the OEM meter in the cluster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 HOW TO CALCULATE EXTENDED IDLE CONDITIONS Engine Hours vs. Vehicle Mileage Formula (Helpful to determine if "Extended Idle" condition exists) Record the engine hours from the vehicle and multiply the number by 25 (1 hour of engine running time is equal to approximately 25 miles). If the number is less than the miles on the odometer, the vehicle is driven more than it idles - use vehicle mileage to determine maintenance interval If the number is greater than the mileage on the odometer, the vehicle idles more than it is driven - use engine hours of operation to determine maintenance interval) Per the Scheduled Maintenance in the Diesel Supplement, a vehicle being used in severe service special operating conditions must have the oil and filter changed every 5,000 miles or 200 engine hours. The fuel filters need to be changed every 10,000 miles or 400 engine hours. Example: A vehicle with 15,400 miles on the odometer had 1220 engine hours (equal to 30,500 miles). The vehicle had only two oil/filter changes performed, however based on engine hours of operation, the vehicle should have had six oil/filter changes. This formula applies to fuel filters replacement. Engine hours are critical when considering the life of fuel filters which require replacement every other oil change. This same engine hours vs. vehicle mileage formula also applies to engine coolant when operated in severe service special operating conditions. Check the Nitrite level of the coolant using Rotunda 3-Way Antifreeze Test Strip Kit # 328-00001, and add the Motorcraft additive or replace coolant as necessary. http://cms2.fmcdealer.dealerconnection.com/Ford_LM/Sales/Communications/Division+Communications/March+2009/EFC0201020DC.htm?BRAND=FORD&ROLE=SVCTEC®IONS=FORD%2D56%2EFCSD%2DA1%2EFMCC%2DLA&PACODE=09049>As of March 2009 - Revision to waranty policy manual. To my knowledge Ford has not yet based warranty on hours - just mileage, but I say be prepared cause it won't be long before they do. One of the things that gets me with a lot of the trucks we see here is that they are owned by oil companies. These companies run all the maintenance on their rig equipment by operating hours, but they can't seem to understand that these trucks are the same way....if they idle more than they drive you need to maintain accordingly! IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 See, we dont get to see any of these wpm updates/ revisions. I dont think our sm reads them, let alone passes them on down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 you should be able to access them yourself on the main fmcdealer page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 So now it's 40 KM/hour of run time for us Canucks? They need to make up their mind, because they used to say 55KM - which was a far more reasonable number. Quote: To my knowledge Ford has not yet based warranty on hours - just mileage, It also states in the W&P manual update I have printed out on my toolbox that this is factored in when warranty is considered. I have been asked hours on vehicles several times when trying to get prior approval. I will get the number tomorrow and post it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FordTechCA Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 [quote=Bruce Amacker And so does IH. I wonder when Ford will wise up? about this time next year when they run out of the money reserves they had that helped them from joining GM and Chrysler begging for bailout money due to poor business decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 We are entering a brave new world.... (apologies to Aldous Huxley) You guys keep opining situations... Ford makes them come true.... you bitch about the consequences.... The 6.7 will have SRC and pisspot injection.... it will surely have EGR and VGT and many other features we have come to fear and loathe.... Technology is in a state of flux. Warranty administration is in a state of flux... Vehicle sales strategies are in a state of flux..... Your bank account is in a state of flux.... Your retirement savings plan is in a state of flux.... We are fucked... big business is in good shape and the politicians know who has big chequebooks and who don't.... They are building a megastructure in Dubai and the kid at the end of your street has shit for shoes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I have been asked hours on vehicles several times when trying to get prior approval. I will get the number tomorrow and post it up. I also have been asked hours several times on vehicles for prior approval, but I've never once been denied a claim based on hours even when the hours exceed '100,000' miles. I currently have a 6.4 in my bay with 4111 hours or '102,775' miles on it, the odometer reads somewhere around 86,600 and Ford prior approval just approved me for a complete engine assembly on thursday. And they knew the hours on the truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I was dealing in an environment where vehicles had mileage in the 40-45 thousand kilometer range, with the hour meters maxed out. For everyone's info - a pre-08 hour meter maxes out at 9999.9 hours. At which point an hourmeter gets installed in the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I know on a 2008 and newr truck the engine hour meter can be reset in the PCM. I can't remember if I looked to see if that function exists for pre 2008 trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I was not aware that these hour meters could be reset. Is this something you are doing when you put in a new engine? I've just been noting the hours on the repair orders. Where do I access this reset so I can turn it to 0 on a complete or shortblock installation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think it comes up in programmable parameters on the ids. I reset one by accident once and the guy was kinda pissed at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 LOL! ^^ Tell him ford is basing warranty solely on hours now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselD Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 yup it can be reset. its in the parameters section Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 It does exist on pre 08 trucks, put a complete in an 06 last week, and reset the hours to 0. Truck really only needed headgaskets(120000) but the customer wanted a complete engine....I was happy to oblige! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 9/3/2009 4:12:58 PM Josh, Thanks for the updated information. Continue with oil pan removal as this will allow inspection of lower end components. If damage noted, record the engine hours from the Cluster and multiply this number by 33. This number will provide an accurate mileage for the vehicle. Also, obtain copies of the vehicle maintenance records to verify all services are up to date. Cab and cylinder head removal is then recommended to allow complete root cause/extent of damage inspections. Complete a cost cap analysis once inspections completed. Submit engine approval forms should cost to repair exceed the $10,000 cap. Comment from: technician Comment Date: 9/3/2009 4:47:25 PM WHEN DID WE SWITCH BACK TO 33 MILES/HOUR? THIS IS WHAT IT READS IN THE MARCH 30 2009 REVISION TO WARRANTY POLICY MANUAL HOW TO CALCULATE EXTENDED IDLE CONDITIONS Engine Hours vs. Vehicle Mileage Formula (Helpful to determine if "Extended Idle" condition exists) Record the engine hours from the vehicle and multiply the number by 25 (1 hour of engine running time is equal to approximately 25 miles). THE ENGINE HOURS ARE 970 WHICH EQUATES TO (25*970) 24250 OR (33*970) 32010 DEPENDING ON WHICH FORMULA YOU GO WITH, BUT EITHER WAY ITS LESS THAN THE 37524 THAT THE ODOMETER READS. Comment from: Hotline Comment Date: 9/3/2009 4:53:01 PM Joshua, The hours to mileage conversion is different from severe duty to regular duty. If the vehicle is considered severe duty, then the hours would get multiplied by 25. This is how the ever 200 hours or 5,000 miles in the maintenance manual is formulated. If the vehicle is not severe duty, then the 33 comes into play. WHY ARE WE USING 2 SEPERATE ENGINE HOUR TO MILE CONVERSIONS? MAKE UP YOUR MIND FORD!!!! GOT A DEAD HOLE - CYL 2 (0 PSI COMPRESSION) ON THIS TRUCK, WHAT IS PULLING THE OIL PAN GONNA DO FOR ME?!?! THE TIP OF THE GLOW PLUG IS MELTED, THERE IS 'WELDING' SPATTER ON THE GLOW PLUG, THERE IS METAL DEBRIS ALL OVER THE OIL DRAIN PLUG, OIL IN THE CAC - ALL COMMON SIGNS OF A BURNT PISTON. NO VALVE TRAIN DAMAGE, AND NOW I NEED TO PULL THE PAN TO 'FIND THE ROOT CAUSE'?!?! ROOT CAUSE IS CRAPPY DESIGN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 well it will only get better after you do all the miles vs hours, take the engine half apart to "find the root cause", and blow the cost cap away they will tell you to go ahead and fix it over the cost cap. That will wreck your week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Actually, I've generally seen this type of failure get a complete - gotta wait about a week for it to show up since it comes right off the assembly line. Got metal transfer into the turbos, right now Ford has asked for maintenance records, the customer has done all their own maintenance, so hopefully for their sake they've got some receipts. Talking to my service manager, if they can provide maintenance for 3 oil changes and 2 fuel filters, we should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 If you get a complete engine I'll need to know everything you did to get it, cause I tried like hell to get a complete. I can use it next time. I blew the cost cap by 3gs and had to do a short block and heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshbuys Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I'm guessing you submitted for prior approval on a short block and head, coolers, turbos, and the response you got was something along the lines of: The dealer's request has been approved for a DOES II engine. Order a new 6007 engine through the parts department. Please remember to remove the engine lifting bracket from the right rear of the engine to prevent an engine vibration concern. Be sure to clean the CAC, intake piping and exhaust during the repair. Refer to SSM 20370 for cleaning of the CAC. If there is any liquid coolant, oil, or fuel in the DOC and DPF, those components will need to be replaced as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 uuummm NO!!! I had to build the jigsaw puzzle from the short block up, for no where near enough time!! Quote: Approved to repair above cost cap Additional Instructions: Dealer is approved to perform the engine repair over the cost cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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