BLittle500 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Hey guys, Got an 03 in with the customer complaining of a surge under load. I road tested with him and got the truck to do it one time in a half hour. Under WOT around 2000RPM it will just start to surge and buck, but eventually power through it. This thing has a P0069 in it (map coralation) and 3 codes in it for the AP sensor. Cleared them out and re test, none came back. The truck wont do it for me again though. Looking back through some old posts on here though, the VGT_LRN was NO and from my searching it looks like I should maybe check that out as a cause of my concern. Let me know what you guys think, Brandon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted August 4, 2009 Author Share Posted August 4, 2009 Went on another road test after lunch, got this thing to act up twice, and I was able to grab recordings with the IDS of the event. Cleared the codes before road test and, P0603, P2122, P2138, and P2139 came back. While surging: FICM SYNC: Yes SYNC: Yes VGTLRN_OK: No AP Inputs are steady @ WOT EBP 24.5-25.5 PSI EGRDC: all over the place EGRVP: all over the place IAT1 and IAT2 reading steady ICP: all over the place ICP_DES: not very stable, but not terrible IPR: follows ICP_DES MAF: all over the place MAP: not very stable, but not terrible MGP: 23-29 PSI Dont know if any of that stuff will throw up any flags for you guys or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Went on another road test after lunch, got this thing to act up twice, and I was able to grab recordings with the IDS of the event. Cleared the codes before road test and, P0603, P2122, P2138, and P2139 came back. While surging: FICM SYNC: Yes SYNC: Yes VGTLRN_OK: No AP Inputs are steady @ WOT EBP 24.5-25.5 PSI EGRDC: all over the place EGRVP: all over the place IAT1 and IAT2 reading steady ICP: all over the place ICP_DES: not very stable, but not terrible IPR: follows ICP_DES MAF: all over the place MAP: not very stable, but not terrible MGP: 23-29 PSI Dont know if any of that stuff will throw up any flags for you guys or not. Try cleaning out IAT #2 of all carbon and retest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixturbosix Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I have always experienced that if vgt learn is not completed they have more of a tendacy to act up.There are some criteria that must be met to alow vgt learn other than just engine temp though.I had one a while back that would not achieve vgt learn and it had a hole in map sensor hose right at bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Almost everytime I have a "gas" pedal, "foot feed", accelerator, or what-have-you concern, it has been attributed to a chaffe. And most of the time at the shock tower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Hey guys, Got an 03 in with the customer complaining of a surge under load. I road tested with him and got the truck to do it one time in a half hour. Under WOT around 2000RPM it will just start to surge and buck, but eventually power through it. This thing has a P0069 in it (map correlation) and 3 codes in it for the AP sensor. Cleared them out and re test, none came back. The truck wont do it for me again though. Looking back through some old posts on here though, the VGT_LRN was NO and from my searching it looks like I should maybe check that out as a cause of my concern. Let me know what you guys think, Brandon Several things: 1-Definitely correct any and all DTC's before beating your head on this. Faulty sensor inputs like APP, ICP and MAP can and will be the cause to an effect. Look at those sensor VOLTAGES much closer This is why many pinpoint tests start with clearing DTC's and performing a KOEO to address any DTC's that return. The APP is definately suspect. 2- I am still not convinced that IAT2 had ANY input that will cause a driveability issue. 3- In looking at the data you posted I assume this is from a recording made during a road test? I would love to see a screen shot of the playback. By looking at the data you posted I am most interested in the MGP reading which you show 23-29 PSI. When MGP (boost) reaches 26 PSI and is climbing the PCM will be looking to open up the turbo by decreasing VGT duty cycle to slow the turbo down. If that proves ineffective it will most noticeably OPEN THE EGR VALVE which bleeds off exhaust pressure and WILL slow the turbo thus limiting boost. I have seen this many many times and have recordings of it happening. It does cause a surge. 4- Aside from that, I have seen the following most commonly cause surging: erratic ICP signals, sticking turbochargers, worn turbocharger unison ring control lever slots and not so common anymore EBP signals - being a 2003 with the inferred EBP calibration the EBP is not an issue however you will need to be sure the VGT learn has completed and shows "YES" in data logger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLittle500 Posted August 5, 2009 Author Share Posted August 5, 2009 Keith, What all PID's do you want to see from a screen shot? And also, do I just take a screen shot and post it like a normal picture or is there a better way? Thanks for all the help guys, I'm on a 6.4 that needs T-Stats now, but once thats done it's back to this 6.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Usually the more PIDs the better so you have the information and you can weed out stuff as you eliminate them... but at least the parameters you mentioned, I would include the APP and all of the pressure sensors - pressure AND VOLTS, VGT_DC, EBP, EBP_DES, MGP, MAP, EGR_VP, EGR_DC, ICP, ICP_DES, IPR... You could take a screen shot and post it as a file attachment with your post OR you could save the IDS session and upload that file with your post like you would with the hot line... that way anyone with an IDS can download the session and open it in their IDS and look at EVERYTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Clayton Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Here is the Ford recommended list of pids: Quote: Record the following PIDS when the hotline requests recordings for review of your drivability concern. These PIDS are essential for a thorough review of the concern. WDS Pids APP % B+ BARO (psi) DTCCNT EBP (psi) ECT (temp) EGR_DTY EGRVP EGRTP_DTY EGRTP_VP EOT (temp) EBP-A EBP_DES FUELPW FICM_LPWR FICM_VPRW FICM_MPWR FICMSYNC ICP (psi & volts) ICP_DES (psi) IPR INJ_TIM IAT IAT2 LOAD MAF (g/s) MAP MFDES MGP RPM SYNC VGT_DTY VPWR VREF VSS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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