Brad Clayton Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Worth giving a look. If you click on the jug of fluid you can access a 30 min. webinar. This gives a pretty good indication of what to expect in the very near future. Biggest thing that got my attention is diesel exhaust fluid is over half water. It's temp window is somewhat not extreme eviroment friendly. Basically it freezes at 12 degrees F. That means it will have to be heated by engine coolant, meaning more friggin' lines off the engine and everything that goes with that (computer controls, nox sensors for derate, ect.) Cummins Filtration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastendpowerstroke Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Thats a real cool firetruck you got there big guy. p.s. if anybody needs a fullsized copy of that pic I may be able to hook you up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Worth giving a look. If you click on the jug of fluid you can access a 30 min. webinar. If you Google "Diesel Exhaust Fluid", you'll have enough to read to take you into the next century. Take my word for it, I have, as I already wrote a 168 page class on it, which is one of our most popular classes right now. This gives a pretty good indication of what to expect in the very near future. Biggest thing that got my attention is diesel exhaust fluid is over half water. It's temp window is somewhat not extreme environment friendly. Basically it freezes at 12 degrees F. DEF begins to freeze at 12F, which means it starts to get slushy. It doesn't turn to solid ice at that temp. DEF isn't needed while the engine is cold, anyway, as no NOx is generated in a cold engine. By the time the engine warms up, the DEF will be thawed (by coolant plumbed into the tank) and ready for use. All DEF tanks will be designed to allow the material to freeze if the truck (or transfer jug/tank) is stored outside in subzero temps. Don't worry about it freezing, it's not a big issue. That means it will have to be heated by engine coolant, meaning more friggin' lines off the engine and everything that goes with that (computer controls, nox sensors for derate, ect.) Yes, plenty of stuff to go wrong. IH is the only US mfr not using SCR next year, as their engines are clean enough (with the addition of EPA emission credits) to pass 2010 standards. I have a hunch by 2012 or so IH will go to SCR, also. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 What about temps that reach -30, -40, -50? I would think the best location for this jug would likely be under the hood, with as short of a coolant line as possible to keep it hot. (I didn't watch the seminar - so forgive me if that's where it is located.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I'm sure it's as solid as a brick at that point, but it won't matter to me. I'll be in Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 LOL I can't say as if I'll be far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I forgot Bruce hibernates in the Winter... somewhere near the tropics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LARRY BRUDZYNSKI Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I forgot Bruce hibernates in the Winter... somewhere near the tropics. AAHHHH that's how he gets to the tropical islands to "assist" the local guys there. He writes it off as a business expense. Very smart!!!! Cummins Filtration offers various packaging sizes, including 1, 2.5, and 5 gallon bottles, 55 gallon drums, 275 gallon disposable totes, 330 gallon totes and bulk. Can you imagine putting a 330 gallon tote in the back of a pickup???? I wonder how long it will be before they come out with retro-fit kits for the earlier trucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 I can't see retrofit kits since emissions levels can't really be enacted retroactively... If you have a car built in 1973, "they" can't legally make you meet anything 'better' than 1973 emissions levels.... currently, enacting any laws that state different would amount to political suicide. When we consider the "evolution of the cigarette and the smoker" - it may only be a matter of time (yes... I've been puffless for well over a year - and I would KILL for a for a smoke right now...). I haven't yet seen the DEF tank capacity written anywhere - nor the expected DEF consumption rating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 DEF usage will be approximately 2-4% of diesel fuel used, depending on what mfr you listen to. This may change under driving conditions, also. DEF tanks will be several gallons in size, partially depending on the size, engine, and usage of the truck. Here's a DEF tank I took a picture of lately which appeared to be about 4-5 gallons in size: And some pics of a truck I took in Paris a few months ago: The tank looked to be about 5 gallons. Current Mercedes cars use a 28 liter tank, IIRC. I bought a 2.5 gallon jug of DEF at TravelCenters of America Truckstop last week for $9.99. ($4/gallon) This was a BUNCH cheaper than the 1/2 gallon bottle I bought at the MB dealer for $8 last spring. These are slides from my Diesel Emissions class, obviously. Anthony is teaching it right now in Marietta, Ohio..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Bruce to the rescue.... Thanks again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I see there you say it'll use a 19mm restriction to prevent diesel fuel from being pumped in there. Isn't a gasoline pump nozzle around that size? I can see it now, if it is..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 You mean we are in for some more flaming Fords? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I see there you say it'll use a 19mm restriction to prevent diesel fuel from being pumped in there. Isn't a gasoline pump nozzle around that size? The DEF tanks may likely have the Elafix delivery system to prevent cross fueling DEF into the diesel fuel tank. There's a magnet in the filler neck that trips a magnetic latch/sensor in the nozzle tip. No magnet, no nozzle operation. The tank pictured above has this, and my buddy in Britain says they use it over there, too. Let's hope it works correctly. The MB DEF bottles are weird- if you remove the bottle cap and invert the bottle, nothing comes out. There's a patented trick MB nozzle and you actually screw the bottle onto the DEF tank, which is under the hood of the car. The two fittings interact and allow the DEF to flow out of the bottle. All of this might not keep someone from putting gasoline in a DEF tank though. Remember: Stupid SHOULD hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Remember: Stupid SHOULD hurt! Quoted for truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I can see the monkeyhouse now.... there was the 10K mod.... then the zoodad mod..... What next - "the all new JATO mod for the 6.7 DEF tank". That wiener on youtube should have a field day with this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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