robsmth41 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 not to go against the grain guys, but i've used the BG Diesel flush products for close to 3 years on the side and sold well over 1000 kits in the shop. If you do it the way BG tells you to you wont see a single result other than smoke and noise. But if you bump your idle up, ESPECIALLY on the EGR portion to around 1750 - 1850 and set your pressure to around 50 - 55 on the canister you will see some amazing results! I'm the last advocate on snake oil products, believe me! But a few years back i was working on a buddies truck and BG had been to the shop earlier that week to demo the complete service so next back at work i grabbed a couple of cans of each and the canisters and flushed his that night, then pulled the intake and couldnt believe what i was seeing. it was a night and day difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Always accepting of different experiences and results. Thank you for sharing your experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmiller Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 We have a fleet customer with dozens of 6.0 E-Series. BG Intake/EGR Service every 25 000. No EGR/coking issues. We use it as a preventative maintenance measure, not a cure for already present issues. If you use it on heavily coked engines, we had a couple that blew all the crap into the EGR cooler inlet and turns it into a solid brick of carbon. Usually throw a P1335 after that, and you end up doing EGR Cooler/oil cooler. After the service is done you are also suppused to run it a bit with the EGR out of it to blow loose bits out, so they don't end up jamming the valve once it gets 5 mins down the road. Used as a PM measure = excellent. Used as a repair to existing problems = Fail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 We have a fleet customer with dozens of 6.0 E-Series. BG Intake/EGR Service every 25 000. No EGR/coking issues. We use it as a preventative maintenance measure, not a cure for already present issues. If you use it on heavily coked engines, we had a couple that blew all the crap into the EGR cooler inlet and turns it into a solid brick of carbon. Usually throw a P1335 after that, and you end up doing EGR Cooler/oil cooler. After the service is done you are also suppused to run it a bit with the EGR out of it to blow loose bits out, so they don't end up jamming the valve once it gets 5 mins down the road. Used as a PM measure = excellent. Used as a repair to existing problems = Fail agreed 110%! We also used it as a follow up to repairs as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Browning Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 My thinking on this is that a 6.0L that has a current calibration installed, is running properly, the engine oil is not overfilled and isn't using crap fuel, EGR failures due to carbon are simply not an issue any more. Unlike in the past, we see very few EGR problems that are not affected by an EGR cooler failures, poor performance and poor maintenance practices. I have attached TSB 08-26-12 for us to review... though many of us have determined the baffle is pretty much wothless the description and diagnostics are important. As maintenance I also think it is a waste of your customers' money and your time. If you have a build up of carbon and you are not addressing the cause of it you are not doing any good in the long run. But I have been in this business long enough to know that our employers are out to make money and offering these services are one way of doing so. If your customers see any benefit despite not being long lasting, then I guess all is not lost. When repairing an engine that has had coolant or oil contamination in the intake you are better off having the manifold hot tanked as this will also clean out the passage between the cooler and the valve which the "flush" simply can't clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i agree with you Keith. With good fuel and proper maintenance 6-0 will have very few if any EGR issues. But this challenge i issue to anyone. Come to Kentucky as well as a few other non federally regulated states and run fuel samples for cetane level. the 6-0 was designed to run on a minimum of 45 cetane rating. As a diesel owner and someone with access to fuel sample testing, the best i've ever found in this state was 38. The average of all samples being around 33. So even the best maintenance practices have fallen short in my area. The only customers i've encountered who didn't have EGR issues in this area are the ones who i put delete kits on for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The only customers i've encountered who didn't have EGR issues in this area are the ones who i put delete kits on for.Oh boy, Jimbo is going to be all over this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Originally Posted By: robsmth41 The only customers i've encountered who didn't have EGR issues in this area are the ones who i put delete kits on for. Oh boy, Jimbo is going to be all over this one. lol, i'm sure. but its the only true fix to get longevity out of that engine. It simply wasn't designed to be emissions compliant. International will confirm that if you can get them on the phone, which i have a couple of times. Without high-grade, high sulfur diesel it just won't run right long term. with that being said, i have a very good friend whose occupation is hauling exotic cars cross country with his 05 350 and he's knocking on 600,000 miles. But he's also had 4 EGR valves that i put in my self, 8 injectors, 2 coolers, and a half-shell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchan68 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 with that being said, i have a very good friend whose occupation is hauling exotic cars cross country with his 05 350 and he's knocking on 600,000 miles. But he's also had 4 EGR valves that i put in my self, 8 injectors, 2 coolers, and a half-shell.Oh I never said they won't last. It's just that to make them last, $$$ has to be put into them. And yeah, I too have already seen my fair share of high mileage 6.0s on the road lately. One that had 250,000kms. WITH THE ORIGINAL EGR COOLER (orange hose), hard as it is to believe. I think it's more that we just don't hear of the ones that are on the road without problems because the owners aren't complaining, but then again, why would they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Amacker Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I ask this regularly in class of my fleet accounts, the students regularly reply they have many 6.0s that have never had any major service, some which have never even had minor service. But, then there are the ones with service records that go into pages and millions of dollars spent. Honestly, I'd say 3/4 of them have not had major service. One I play with regularly is right up the street from me, a '05 wrecker with 242k on it. The tranny finally died last week. 2 fuel pumps and a couple FICMs (he chose used ones 'cause they were quick and cheap) are the only failures. At 150 we did coolers and cleaned the turbo for maintenance on my suggestion. It's had a hard life, been a great truck and he needs to replace it. FWIW, he has a fleet of wreckers, mostly IHs but bought a Dodge Cummins in '08 that has more repairs than his 6.0. He's thinking of replacing the 6.0 with a 6.7 right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 my experience has been pretty much the same as yours bruce. even though the fuel from the pump here in kentucky is some of the worst in the nation, my customers that USE their 6.0's for what they were meant for instead of mall crawlers typically get great service life from them. The harder you run that engine the more likely you will be to have a long lasting engine. Load it up and latch it back is exactly what i tell them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Originally Posted By: robsmth41 The only customers i've encountered who didn't have EGR issues in this area are the ones who i put delete kits on for. Oh boy, Jimbo is going to be all over this one. One of the big problems (Ford addressed it with the 6.7's EGR system) was ITECs propensity for putting the EGR valve at the cold end of the system. With a little EGR flow at idle (for any reason at all)and we get to see "wet stacking" of a sort. Check the hour meters of the trucks that have them - we often see things like a truck at 127,000 kms with over 6,000 hours or even as high as 8,000 hours in some cases. I call this the "bought the wrong fucking truck" syndrome. FWIW, and I hope I don't make any enemies over this ( well, not many. anyway), I'm not really sure anyone that makes a habit of defeating emissions controls should call himself "professional". Any customer that asks me to lie or cheat for him isn't much of a customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsmth41 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Check the hour meters of the trucks that have them - we often see things like a truck at 127,000 kms with over 6,000 hours or even as high as 8,000 hours in some cases. I call this the "bought the wrong fucking truck" syndrome. FWIW, and I hope I don't make any enemies over this ( well, not many. anyway), I'm not really sure anyone that makes a habit of defeating emissions controls should call himself "professional". Any customer that asks me to lie or cheat for him isn't much of a customer. My feelings on this is EGR problems prior to 2011 are not Ford's fault. It's an IH engine. Ford asked for an engine with longevity and emissions compliance, thus the 6.0. It has emissions compliance, but longevity is far from desirable in MANY cases. I'm not sure i comprehend why you say "bought the wrong truck." i mean, if you don't like having a job, let them go buy a chevy or dodge. Personally i'm proud of what our older work trucks are getting done. The only time i've ever seen engine hours really come into play is on the 6.4. But again, we're back to piss poor design by IH. The 6.4 even though advertised to be able to idle endlessly just can't! it's a POS as far as internal design for longevity goes. All of this is being said with no malice or hard feelings because we're entitled to our opinions. But i can't see anything wrong with defeating emissions if emissions are killing the engines and its out of the customers pocket. Its their rig and their perrogative. I've got a 6.0 myself and i've put the delete kit, 4" MPRP turbo back with muffler, and BD Triple Dog on. To me, emissions compliance on a diesel has been a joke. Put a garden hose in the exhaust stream of a running diesel and measure the deadly gases. and then do the same with a gas engine. Which one is gonna kill you faster? just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbriggs Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 The whole point of emissions devices have nothing to do with engine longevity, but everthing to do with our planets longevity. Think of the shit hole we will leave behind for our children, grandchildren and so on, if everybody has your attitude! If the customer thinks it is too expensive to repair his $70k pickup truck because it needs to meet certain emission laws, maybe he should walk. These problems arent specific to our brand, all current diesel engines suffer the same concerns with egr, dpf etc. Mostly due to fuel quality and impropper useage of the vehicle. (Like Jim said, bought the wrong truck.) Maybe people will soon wake up and stop buying 1 ton diesel trucks for their wives to drive to the grocery store and back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Warman Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 Originally Posted By: Jim Warman Check the hour meters of the trucks that have them - we often see things like a truck at 127,000 kms with over 6,000 hours or even as high as 8,000 hours in some cases. I call this the "bought the wrong fucking truck" syndrome. FWIW, and I hope I don't make any enemies over this ( well, not many. anyway), I'm not really sure anyone that makes a habit of defeating emissions controls should call himself "professional". Any customer that asks me to lie or cheat for him isn't much of a customer. My feelings on this is EGR problems prior to 2011 are not Ford's fault. It's an IH engine. Ford asked for an engine with longevity and emissions compliance, thus the 6.0. It has emissions compliance, but longevity is far from desirable in MANY cases. I'm not sure i comprehend why you say "bought the wrong truck." i mean, if you don't like having a job, let them go buy a chevy or dodge. Personally i'm proud of what our older work trucks are getting done. The only time i've ever seen engine hours really come into play is on the 6.4. But again, we're back to piss poor design by IH. The 6.4 even though advertised to be able to idle endlessly just can't! it's a POS as far as internal design for longevity goes. All of this is being said with no malice or hard feelings because we're entitled to our opinions. But i can't see anything wrong with defeating emissions if emissions are killing the engines and its out of the customers pocket. Its their rig and their perrogative. I've got a 6.0 myself and i've put the delete kit, 4" MPRP turbo back with muffler, and BD Triple Dog on. To me, emissions compliance on a diesel has been a joke. Put a garden hose in the exhaust stream of a running diesel and measure the deadly gases. and then do the same with a gas engine. Which one is gonna kill you faster? just my .02 Defeating emissions controls is, in most areas, just plain fucking illegal... in all areas it is just plain fucking immoral. If you are to break the law (and pretend to be doing it as a "professional"), at what point do we stop being conscientious and start being criminal? Pollution isn't an opinion, it is a fact of life - and one question that bears asking is where does any one person get off deciding that he or she is above the law and therefore has free reign over the air we all share. Look at it this way.... let us say that some dork throws a paper coffee cup on your front lawn. No big deal, right? Now let us say that everybody that passes your yard throws an empty paper coffee cup on your front lawn.... This is going to get real old real quick. I see you are right on the ball.... I would never have thought to blame ITEC for some of the EGR concerns brought upon by placing a valve at the cold end of the EGR system - and I certainly wouldn't have thought about blaming customers for idling their trucks for extended periods of time - I do hope you understand "sarcasm". But the whole core of your post is wrapped around doing WRONG THINGS. We are the keepers of the public trust when it comes to making sure that the vehicles on public roads are 'clean' and safe. We do not own this planet.... we are borrowing it - FROM OUR CHILDREN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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